Forum / FAVES - You Fave Mine, I'll Fave Yours - VOMIT

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 11, 06:22pm

In a different thread recently, focused on how to bring attention to older stories posted, some of us have been discussing the fave system. I've had real concerns with arm-twisting and what appears to be automatic fave-ing of friends' stories.... all unprofessional and ugly, but it happens. Has anyone else had the experience of openly aggressive fave requests? It turned me off of Fictionaut for quite a while as I felt the faves I saw must be so inaccurate if they were politically offered.

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Feb 11, 06:53pm

I receive many requests to read. I have only received ONE request to fave. I have never asked anyone to read or fave mine.

I personally use faves as a way to bookmark a story or poem I think I may return to. I don't particularly put a lot of weight on them, either given or received. The comments -- and who offers them -- mean more to me personally than do stars. My day is made if someone comments that what I wrote moved them, or if something I wrote struck them as unusually clever or unique. That's the ultiamte test of a piece's 'goodness' to me. And whether it finds a home in a journal, thereby passing some editorial muster. Peace...

stephen hastings-king
Feb 11, 07:17pm

wait. people ask other people to read their stuff?

W.F. Lantry
Feb 11, 07:31pm

No-one has ever asked me to fave anything. I don't think anyone has ever asked me to read anything. Arm-twisting? For a fave? I can't imagine anyone doing that. What would be the point?

I personally like the system the way it is. If something gets lots of comments and faves, it means I'm on the right track. On the other hand, if it gets no comments and no faves, it doesn't mean a thing! ;)

I can't imagine getting upset about it, either way... ;)

Susan Tepper
Feb 11, 08:02pm

Stephen I seem to recall quite recently...
No! Just kidding! You have never asked me for a read or a fav! Or anything!

But I've gotten that stuff and I don't like it. It puts you in a dilemma if you don't like the piece. You then become the bad guy. And some people push really hard. It can get very disturbing.

Christian Bell
Feb 11, 08:04pm

I've received some requests to read but never one to fave. I can't imagine actually asking someone to do that.

I'm probably guilty of over-faving, in that I like to give faves for things that I've read and commented on and liked. I don't make any distinction that, okay, a particular story is good and enjoyable, but it's not as good as some other stories so therefore it doesn't get a fave. I see the fave system as a tool for encouraging fellow writers to participate in this community.

If I don't like a story or find serious flaws with it, I usually don't leave a comment (or fave) unless the writer has made it clear that critical feedback is what's being sought.

Bill Yarrow
Feb 11, 09:06pm

"Has anyone else had the experience of openly aggressive fave requests?"
Yes. Multiple times. Very disturbing.

I turned off the option of making my faves visible on my page.

I wish Fictionaut would not indicate who faved what.

David Ackley
Feb 11, 09:18pm

Things in life only rarely combine the hilarious and the pathetic, but asking for faves may be one of those occasions. Could the stakes be any smaller? It's like begging for a jelly bean.

Bill Yarrow
Feb 11, 09:46pm

"University politics are vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."
--Henry Kissinger

Keith U.
Feb 11, 09:54pm

I've been asked to read a couple of times, and was flattered to do so. And I'm pretty sure I'm one of the people who asked Christian Bell to read something (after time passed, and I sought his counsel), and he graciously gave his time and attention to it and doctored a portion that needed more skill than I had to offer. (And I am still grateful for that.)

But asking for a fav? Haven't seen that. Or even considered it might happen. Less than a jelly bean, David - when I hit the bottom of a bag of Starburst Jelly Beans, one more is no trivial matter.

But asking for a fav? Seriously, Bill, people aggressively ask you? How horrible. Unless it was me, in which case I wish you hadn't been so damn stingy with the stars.

Now, SLEEPING with people for favs is a whole different matter...

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 11, 09:57pm

Ayup Boudreau, it happens.
Sucking jelly beans.
I've never asked anyone to read my stories either -- I comment on theirs when I have something to say, and if someone comments back on mine...well, that feels fair. Likewise when someone comments on mine, I'm more likely to seek out their stories. Fair. No jelly beans involved. Or sex. Bummer.

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 11, 10:51pm

I've never really had a fave request, and if I was ever asked to fave something, my reaction would be to ignore the piece entirely.

However, in recent history, I've been invited to read something on the board by the author(s). The first time it happened, I was a little put off by it, thought it presumptuous, but went ahead and read the story. It's happening more frequently and I will probably ignore such requests in the future.

I don't see what's to be gained by self promotion on this web site. If a story is any good, it will get some notice, a phenomenon that snowballs slowly or quickly according to the elements of chance or unexplained "acts of God." ... Or, conversely, it may be a work of pure genius and is totally ignored for no good reason at all. It happens.

And, yes, there are some people who will get a dozen faves on the merit of who they are, but isn't that the way of the world?

Asking for a reading is, I think, a minor annoyance, understandable and quite forgivable when it derives from a writer's sincere enthusiasm concerning their own work. If, however, someone comes right out and asks someone for a fave? ... oy!

I think there is a place described by Dante in the "Inferno" devoted specifically to such transgressions.

W.F. Lantry
Feb 11, 10:55pm

Jelly beans? Never. But sex? That's quite another story!

I would sleep with any number of people for a fave! Especially if, when we were done, and I was laying there, sprawled across the unmade bed, naked and exhausted, and she was quietly getting dressed, and getting ready to go out the door. But just before she left, if she were to turn back a moment, walk towards the bed, lean over my half-conscious form, and whisper, so lightly in my ear I could barely hear the word:

"Fave!"

Now, for that, I would give quite a lot! Might even solicit it, aggressively! ;)

Susan Tepper
Feb 11, 11:04pm

Now just a minute, Bill Lantry, just a darned minute..
Why does SHE have to leave?
Why can't YOU leave?
In your version, she has to get up, get dressed, venture out into the cold night. Alone. Faveless!
While, you, on the other hand, get to stay in the warm bed, fav in hand (well somewhere) and maybe even call up for room service to bring you a nice burger and beer.
** WAF'S do you hear this???

Jim V
Feb 11, 11:19pm

If I had to ask someone to like something, it wouldn't mean a thing to me.

Now, asking people to read in a general way-- say, a link on FB-- I don't see a problem with that. It's just a way for people to know it's there. Tit for tat reading seems no more moral to me then giving a link on FB to the poem/story.

That said, I would never ask someone personally to read something. I work pretty hard at what I do and have just enough ego to think that my work is more a gift to the reader than their reading is a gift to me.

And when I fave something, I take a lot of things into consideration-- such as the experience of the writer, the intent of the piece, even its message. I don't give them out completely indiscrimiately, but neither am I stingy. Writing's a tough gig, where even the best can get down, need encouragement. I want people to know I appreciate their effort. And there's only two ways of doing that here: commenting and fave-ing. I do both.

By the way, I hate the non-word fave and feel dirty every time I type it.

Susan Tepper
Feb 11, 11:43pm

Don't type it. Make the little *
It's cute like Tinker Bell
ding!
you got a *

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 11, 11:46pm

Susan - I'm so glad you're in this discussion - you're cracking me up and it's been a crappy day. The laughing does me good. :-)

Susan Tepper
Feb 11, 11:48pm

Pamela-- don't get me started...
Seriously, I'm glad you are laughing!
I still want to read Bill Lantry's re-write on the BED FAVE Movie..
C'mon Bill

Meg Pokrass
Feb 11, 11:50pm

I'm inspired to write a story about Bill's hysterical notion of sleeping with people for a fave... any number of them! Ha!

I'm glad Pam started this thread. This is happening, and it is happening right now. A writer asked me to trade faves about a month ago and I said NO... and then AGAIN just about a week ago "guilted" me for not reading their piece, sort of the same thing... a letter saying "Hey, what kind of friend are you for not supporting me! I have supported you!"

I had been working so much i hadn't time to read stories here but would have soon.. was planning to read his. I have never asked him for reads here or anywhere.

I'm Jewish, and an expert in guilt and passive-aggressive behavior... Support my ass! This is guilt-provoking bribery. Sickening.

Susan Tepper
Feb 11, 11:57pm

Ah ha! A clue! Meg said HIS..
Hmm..
You gotta watch those guys they will guilt you every time: food, sex, faves, rides, borrow your house, your dog, your best friend...
Once a guy who wanted to borrow my headboard.
And no offer of a return fave!!!
What kind of world are we living in???
WHAT IS HAPPENING????????????

Susan Tepper
Feb 12, 12:00am

did I leave anything out?
plants.
they will guilt you out of plants.
they like the hanging variety.
now thats interesting..

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 12, 12:10am

* = fave

For the longest time, I thought it meant ... something else.

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 12, 12:12am

Hanging plants are ... kind of erotic, if you don't get out much.

Susan Tepper
Feb 12, 12:57am

HA Jim Davis!

Joani Reese
Feb 12, 01:03am

Oh, what are all those folks who read our work posted here but don't belong thinking of all this fiddle? There is no rarefied air here. No one has ever asked me to fave anything, but I'm not around on the big board enough to make myself too noticeable, so I guess I'm safe. Has anyone who's been asked this rather needy favor ever just written back to the insecure askee and explained that what was asked was unacceptable and rather rude? Problem solved. Off to fondle my spider plant...and eat jelly beans.

W.F. Lantry
Feb 12, 01:31am

See, that's the whole problem, in a nutshell! Everyone's fondling spider plants, and no-one's reading my story! Maybe I should leave little dishes of jellybeans beside my bed. Then they wouldn't run out the door as soon as they were done with me... ;)

And I'll have you know I never asked to borrow any girl's headboard! But I did make one in my shop. Intricately carved. With all sorts of loops and posts and holes. You could tie a silk scarf to it in numerous places.

That's the worst: when they whisper in my ear and then go rushing off, forgetting to undo the knots. In such moments, jelly beans are cold comfort indeed!

Keith U.
Feb 12, 05:48am

You people are odd.

I am in the right place after all.

;)

***

I have a
spider plant
hanging
in my pant

Is it mean
My request
to star
Jelly beans?

***

Matt Potter
Feb 12, 08:13am

Perhaps my main issue with the comment / fave system on Fictionaut is that your own comments - usually thank yous to those who have given you nice comments - contribute to your standing on 'Recommended Stories'. If you look at stories with vast numbers of comments, usually a good third to half of them have been contributed by the author him or herself. So it's very much like voting your own story on to the Recommended Stories list. This is something I have refused to do, and at the risk of sounding like a bitch or a bastard on various versions of this topic again, seems very misleading.
I have been asked only once to read a story here on Fictionaut and have never asked anyone to do the same. I feel a bit guilty that others read my stories far more than I read theirs BUT I want my own comments (and faves) to actually mean something, and endless 'wonderfuls', as nice as they may seem, can also mean not much in the end, when they don't explain why they are wonderful. Generic comments reveal little, I believe, beyond the commenter not having the time or imagination or thought to say why they like what you have written. Wonderfuls are nice, but thirty (or more) of them without a reason ...

Susan Gibb
Feb 12, 09:13am

Getting into this late, but yes, I've been asked to read a story (tho never to fave one) and I've done so and commented. It seems to me that that is sort of the understanding of the process, and need not be requested--that those who read the work of others and comment can hope that those whom he's read will reciprocate by reading his own. I got a little fed up when I was reading and commenting on just about every piece posted and then realized that many of these folks were mighty appreciative, but never made an effort to read the work of anyone else, much less mine.

Funny thing about the comments, Matt, adding to the recommended list--I didn't realize that. I'm one of those who do offer thanks in the comments rather than write on the walls of those who've left a comment. I'll stop doing that. Another thing I find is that when someone posts on Facebook to go read the story on Fictionaut, it adds up a flock of views--don't know why that is.

Matt Potter
Feb 12, 10:09am

Oh I always appreciate you viewing my stories, Susan G., and am guilty of not always returning the favour.

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Feb 12, 11:10am

Really? My comments on my own stories add to the recommended list? Like Susan, I was not aware. I put my thanks there as a record (often there is a dialogue between reader and writer). Sometimes I go to walls to comment, but by the time the frame has loaded, I've often forgotten what the commenter said and what I want to say in return (pass the memantine, please!). I do like to individualize the comments. Hmmm... not sure what I'll do... peace...

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 12, 01:03pm

Oh Matt-like Susan, I hadn't realized that about the author adds to comments -- I'll quit that too and go to walls. I had been doing both, thinking that was "proper." Ugh.

Matt Potter
Feb 12, 01:09pm

To be honest, I thought a number of people knew that ... which is one reason to reply to every single comment ... and thus boost the overall number of replies and then get further, sooner, up the Recommended Stories list.

Susan Gibb
Feb 12, 01:18pm

When it all gets too much like playing games, I'm outta here.

Keith U.
Feb 12, 02:40pm

How would we have known that? I thought it was polite, and protocol here. I'll stop, too, and go to the walls- I never would have imagined that saying thank you could be making anyone cringe. Not clairvoyant, and that is counterintuitive, to say the least.

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Feb 12, 02:45pm

Well, heck, I think we're taking all this is a LITTLE too seriously. Everyone has their own style of interacting -- I sure would hate to have this become a one-size-fits-all cookie-cutter thought-police kind of place. Peace...

Joani Reese
Feb 12, 02:58pm

I, too, had no idea an author replying politely to a comment made his or her poem or story more likely to move up the spectral ladder. I don't always check my profile, so don't read the thank you's sometimes for days. As I get older, I find it politic to do less of that in real life too ; ). I'll write on walls from now on instead. Thanks for the heads-up Matt.

As far as giving faves goes, five a week sounds good to me. I would think at least five excellent poems/stories make it onto the board per week. There are many "good" pieces worth a response, but truly wonderful, unique work isn't all that common--I wouldn't mind having faves rationed to create a bit more consideration in readers, including myself, before we press the fave star.

Have all the offenders read this thread now? Are they chastened? Is there anything else we do here that causes self-promotion about which we should be aware? It's funny that writers really do need to self-promote most of the time, as few of us are fortunate enough to find someone willing to champion our work, but it seems far too silly to be concerned with doing that here, and there is a fine line between righteous self-promotion and neurotic self-absorption.

This thread was interesting and enlightening. Thanks, Pamela, for speaking up.

Joani

Keith U.
Feb 12, 03:08pm

Matt, I don't think of this place as a workshop or classroom, though I've learned lots here, so I never expect (or want, for that matter - unless I expressly ask for it) readers to break out their red pens and go to town on what I post: it means a LOT to me when someone reads all the way through something I've posted, and that can say more to me than "I really like the way you did the thing with the thing-" Well, awesome, but sometimes "I like this," is plenty.

So I'm personally not of the view that generic 'wonderfuls' don't mean much, neither when I get them nor when I give them. Who gives a shit why I love something?

I read it. I love it. I took the time to tell the writer. To me, that is our moment together as writer and reader. The relationship is consummated. If the writer asks for the red pen, that is another matter altogether, but when someone takes the time to generically comment that they like something I wrote, or I do the same, that is no trivial matter, and certainly no annoyance, to me.

[Especially English and creative writing teachers. Those poor people read reams of drivel for a living. So for an English teacher I don't know to take a minute and read all the way through something I wrote, and say they liked it? That's the only gold I get to put in my pocket, as a writer.]

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 12, 03:23pm

It IS polite to respond to a comment, and it's good to see a running dialogue between readers and the author at the point where comments on the story originate. There's not a thing wrong with thanking someone for a comment and I don't intend to change my behavior for 'image' sake.

Having 'faves' and a listing in the Recommended Stories page at Fictionaut is nice, but it's not going to help me get my novels published, never going to improve my writing, and it's not something I'd ever want to brag about. I don't travel in academic or literary circles, so I enjoy the interaction here, gain much from reading and from access to other writers ... and, I'm more than willing to overlook a little gamesmanship in the process. That's what life is like in the world at large anyway.

It is sometimes helpful to get some kind of feedback on the relative merits/failures of stories I post on the site. Fn is a great place to experiment with different forms and styles, but beyond that, I doubt that I'm going to launch a career on Fn. I do enjoy the time I spend here, but I'll not begin to alter my behavior to satisfy some vague, undefined perception of relative 'correctness.' Heck, even defined protocols are off my radar. Always have been. Sometimes people can analyze the pleasure out of just about anything.

Mark Reep
Feb 12, 03:24pm

This thread kinda evidences one of the reasons I like and value Fictionaut. When I saw the title I thought uh-oh, this'll get ugly. Cause, you know, that happens, someplaces. In fact it seems that's ALL that happens, someplaces :) But instead, this has only been informative- I had no idea, I'm so current- and a lot of laughs. I expect I've come to take Fictionaut for granted in a lot of ways. This reminds me: Stop that. It's a very good thing.

Jürgen Fauth
Feb 12, 03:32pm

Just to clarify -- the recommended algorithm knows to disregard the author's comments on their own stories. You see them counted in the comment total, but they don't help get your story up the "spectral ladder." FWIW.

Keith U.
Feb 12, 03:43pm

Thanks, Jürgen!

Joani Reese
Feb 12, 03:45pm

Happy to know that. Thanks!

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 12, 04:54pm

Thanks Jurgen. Good to know.

And, Joani, re: "Have all the offenders read this thread now? Are they chastened? ... It's funny that writers really do need to self-promote most of the time, as few of us are fortunate enough to find someone willing to champion our work, but it seems far too silly to be concerned with doing that here, and there is a fine line between righteous self-promotion and neurotic self-absorption."
AMEN sister.

Darryl Price
Feb 12, 05:11pm

Trying to muster up the get it up:I've been a writer since I was five years old. I'm pretty sure I'll die a writer. I assume it's the same with most of you. In all my years on Fictionaut I've never had anyone ask me for a fave on purpose, as they are called,or before I've even read the piece and I've never ever asked for a fav up front. When I get excited about a new piece of mine I'll email my friends,including Fictionaut buddies, and invite them to visit. I've always asked them to do the same for me. And I'm happy to find new work by the people I admire the most. It's thrilling to me. But let me tell you right now many of these Fictionauts have accepted an invitation and not left a fave. That's okay. It's not about faves. It's about sharing work. I myself have accepted invitations to view new work and have not been compelled to fave it. I've never gotten any kind of angry response from anyone for doing this. It's understood. If you like the piece enough to comment you will, if it moves you enough to fave it you will. It's not rocket science. It's communication. Exactly how many different kinds of writers and readers do you think there are out there? A zillion times a zillion. It's okay. Not everybody is going to like everything you write. You're not going to love everything you read. That's life. But the opportunity a place like Fictionaut affords is enormous simply because you are lucky enough to be exposed to one another through your writing. I now take one day a week to go through as mant stories as I can, to comment if I feel like it, and to fave if I want to..because this is really hard work by real people and it deserves an audience to me. You know what my experience of Fictionaut has mostly been for all this time? I'm inspired! People on this site write some amazing stuff that captures my imagination like nothing else. And I want to inspire them back. Why? Because we are writers,and please don't act like writing is all chore and no art. It's meant to liven up the room. If it fails to do so we writers try again. And again. And again.We want to get it right. And a little pat on the head can sometimes make all the difference in the mood. None of us are doing this for the money. There is no money.Also about thanks in the comments. I try not to do that, but that may just be someone's style. That's who they are. It might not have anything to do with you or your style.We spend way too much time judging each other here instead of celebrating the fact that we are a bunch of extraordinary writers who have been able to come together over writing. So the site's not perfect, and people aren't perfect, and the things they do aren't perfect. So? I can only tell you I've been alive on the planet a long time now and I've yet to meet a perfect person. Not one. I'm not sure I'd know what to do with them if I did. All I'm saying is ease up on the criticism of each other and concentrate that amazing energy into more stories, more poems,more flashes--whatever you've got--and alert me when you have it posted. It'll be my honor to come over and have a look. I'm not the least bit offended by the thought.

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 12, 05:39pm

Darryl, re: "In all my years on Fictionaut I've never had anyone ask me for a fave on purpose..." I wasn't on Fictionaut very long, at all, when it happened to me. So, now I'm left to wonder, why did it happen to me? I'm not going back through the thread to count who else this has happened to, but am I correct in thinking more women than men have experienced this pushiness?
And, yes, I agree, no one is perfect, moi included. I wish, oh how I wish, I had handled the request better one-on-one with the offending party, but, I say again, I've been SO relieved to realize others have had this experience and agree w/me that it's unacceptable. A direct ask for a fave??? YUCK.
I have no probs w/asking for reads, but beyond that, I do have a prob. A big, big prob.

Christian Bell
Feb 12, 05:48pm

I felt I should add that the times I've been asked to read a story, it's been for critical feedback and not just to read the story, as a writer has sought my advice on a story as to what, if anything, could improve it (as Boudreau did, as he mentioned in his earlier post). I'm genuinely flattered when someone wants my advice in this way, and I'm more than happy to help out.

I like this thread! Lots of good discussion here.

Susan Tepper
Feb 12, 06:20pm

I don't like being asked to read. It makes me feel "put on the spot." If I don't like the story, I worry that the author will feel rejected by me. And who am I??? Just one mind in the wilderness.

So please don't ask me to read your work, I like to scroll the recent stories and the recommended ones and decide for myself what to read.

Certain authors I always read, because they seldom disappoint. Others are brand new and it's exciting to discover their talent. My fav list is much longer than the amount of faves I receive, though I'm not complaining by any stretch-- I get a lot of faves, and often on work I wasn't sure about posting.

I like it here on F'naut. For sixteen years I slugged it out totally alone-- no zoetrope, no facebook, no nothing--

Fictionaut is like a small miracle to me. Lots of intelligence, decency, and only a few screwballs (so far). HA! All screwballs keep your distance..

One more thing: I don't write long explanations on why a piece of writing grabbed me. And that's because it starts to sound like "critique" and this is not a critique site. I don't like critique, find it useless, and never give it to my writing students. I just tell them "what is working." Each writer has to find their own way. The true writer always does. I've read comments (critique) on work here that I totally disagree with. And then the writer tells the "critiquer" that they are going to change the piece to comply with the "critique."
Ugh.

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 12, 06:24pm

Have to agree with Christian in that I am happy, even pridefully tickled to provide critical feedback when asked to do so. Otherwise, I hesitate to sit in judgement of anyone's work on the boards and limit myself to faves or positive comments on the general boards wherever they're due. Mostly it boils down to a matter of taste as a reader.

If I see a piece that I don't like, I will not really offer any comment unless the author specifically asks for feedback in his Author's Comment on the posting itself. Of course, I have been known to message someone if I see a glaring error in the text, misspelling or the like.

I like to think that's helpful. I also like to think that a fave is and can be supportive to new, inexperienced writers, so I don't want to be stingy or limit myself in that respect. I've belonged to local writer's groups and have a good idea when it's kosher to bite my tongue, offer a subtle hint, or simply be generous.

M
Feb 12, 07:51pm

I think this site totally rocks, for the most part, but if I'm pressured to read anyone's anything and/or fave, I think it would rock a whole lot less. (OK, I have been pressured before and even when I said something to this person, they didn't get the hint. Oh well.)

I have been perhaps guilty of saying thank you to each and every person in the comments section of several of my stories but that's because I'm grateful someone's reading. Yeah, sometimes it's like that.

To me, no pressure, and I'm doing alright here and loving every minute of it.

Joani Reese
Feb 12, 08:06pm

"I don't like critique, find it useless, and never give it to my writing students. I just tell them "what is working." Each writer has to find their own way. The true writer always does."--When I read the final masterpiece that is The Wasteland, I am thankful Eliot did not feel this way.

M
Feb 12, 08:20pm

I wanted to say one more thing, actually, about what Susan said and now I see Joani has commented. I would like to offer, as lightly and delicately as possible, that there is a time for generation and a time for heavy cleaning up. It is hard for me to tell where people are when they are posting to a virtual forum like this. Some may say they want critique, but what is it that they really want? Where are they, exactly? This is hard. Some of us though definitely are experienced teachers and editors and for these folks I'm thankful but I do think there is learning to create by creating, being critical on your own, reading so much you feel your head will explode. Not very poetically put, but still.

And now, after all that, I should ask, what is this about Elliot?

M
Feb 12, 08:34pm

Oh, Ezra Pound, OK.

Matt Potter
Feb 12, 09:47pm

Linda is right - it is becoming way too serious! By saying what I understand to be true, re Comments and Recommended Stories, I did not mean to up the ante.

Maybe I should have taken (cringe now, at the term) a chill pill!

M
Feb 12, 09:53pm

You're chill with me, Matt.

Matt Potter
Feb 12, 09:57pm

I guess, now I am eager to know how the tally on Recommended Stories excludes author comments. How does it do that? As I had asked Jürgen about this some time ago and understood, from that comment, they were.

So I was mislead ... by myself!

And yes, it actually is polite to thank readers for their comments, whatever their length and meaning.

Shelagh Power-Chopra
Feb 12, 10:35pm

I've never been asked to read anything or fave anything, gee, I feel left out...! And I do think any comments whether they are simply "dandy" or "Love the complex nature..blah blah" cheer me up, like an old friend saying keep it up.

Keith U.
Feb 12, 10:50pm

Shelagh, would you please read every word I've ever written? I just know you'll fav it all, when you do. Even these napkin scraps.

I'll have sex with your hanging plants, if you do.

Ann Bogle
Feb 12, 10:54pm

Yes, I would rather thank. I had assumed that thanking on the story page caused the score to go at least a little higher, so I combined people to thank in fewer comments.

Twice someone has said something on Fictionaut (I've never been asked or asked anyone for a fav) that has rubbed me the wrong way or raw. Once a male writer described Gertrude Stein as "a smelly cunt" in a forum and I can't see, can't, see, reading anything he writes because of it, just a grudge. The other is someone who broke up the flow of praise at my story page for "Hors d'oeuvre" who seemed to think I'd rewrite a short story that Gordon Lish had published (with one word change) in The Quarterly in 1989. He offered criticism, which I accept gladly, while suggesting that I and I in particular might like only praise. The story garnered 11 favs, so it's day on Fictionaut was short, anyway. The particular comments on that story had substance and merit of their own, so why that day, that story? It may be because he had posted (I'd already read and fav'd it) a story that was definitely skilled and engaging and only gotten one fav. So I guess we as readers need to be careful not to miss or underfav stories that deserve it.

Shelagh Power-Chopra
Feb 12, 11:00pm

Napkins, rolling papers, toilet paper, bathroom walls, you write on it, I'll read it.

No hanging plants per se quite yet...

M
Feb 12, 11:03pm

"So I guess we as readers need to be careful not to miss or underfav stories that deserve it."

Agreed. Hard to do with so many stories, but agreed.

Jürgen Fauth
Feb 12, 11:22pm

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression about the comments at some point, Matt -- it's been like this since the very beginning.

The tally *shows* the total number of comments, including the author's own, but internally, the algorithm factors them out when calculating the recommends list. It's like magic!

Matt Potter
Feb 12, 11:29pm

Thanks Jürgen, I think I simply misunderstood what you said, hence my 'misleading myself' comment. I am impressed you are able to factor out the author's own comments. Thanks again for clearing up.

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 12, 11:43pm

Now would you all get off this thread and go read my stories. JUST KIDDING.

Susan Tepper
Feb 13, 12:26am

@ Joani-- I don't understand the point you are making about The Wasteland with regard to what you quoted from me, please elaborate, thanks

Barry Friesen
Feb 13, 12:37am

Oh, PLEASE read Period Piece, would you all? I NEED those favs, too, because I struggle so with historical fiction, but I think I've finally got it boiled down to its essence.

Fictionaut is a fun place to lodge old stories printed elsewhere for a meagre few readers, but this place is JUST for fun, isn't it? No workshopping, no critiquing, no craft development. I just found out that you can hide your favs if you want to, but when you see those who are visible, some seem to fav everything they read. Yay! Others withhold favs as if it matters, but I say it's all about the jelly beans. One for every fav, please. Every virtual reality needs a currency, and getting ramped up about people ASKING for favs is too sweet for words, sweeter than jelly beans.

PLEASE fav "Period Piece" and inspire me to struggle with historical fiction. I guarantee your reading time will be succinct, even abrupt.

And if someone can just tell me where I can turn my favs into jelly beans, my diabetic therapist would like to know. :)

David Ackley
Feb 13, 01:27am

Despite his shameless begging, I'm supporting Barry's plea for both faves for "Period Piece" and Jelly Beans(sugarless of course) but only because his massive, profoundly philosophical, and tediously researched tome merits that and more, the best modern riposte to Tolstoy's " War and Peace" that these old eyes have seen in yea, many a year. It is safe to say that historical fiction will never be the same after "Period Piece" hits the bricks.

(Remember, Barry, about the check being in the mail.)

M
Feb 13, 02:42am

Truly "epic."

W.F. Lantry
Feb 13, 03:03am

Down with period piece!

Down with it, I say.

Period.

And jelly beans, too! ;)

Barry Friesen
Feb 13, 09:05am

Minor protocol query, then: if you use the story page to thank someone for a comment, vs. their wall, doesn't it mean that the commenter needs to come back to the story to even know they've been thanked? I had thought the idea of thanking them on their wall was so they would actually receive it. Do people actually go back to stories to see if there's been a response to their comment? But I guess putting your thank you on your own story page is better than putting it in a shoe box. Period.

Barry Friesen
Feb 13, 09:09am

David, thank you for pimping Period. It's all in the subtext, yes?

But that wasn't shameless begging. I was very ashamed. I live for shame.

All right, I have to work on "Comma" now.

Sam Rasnake
Feb 13, 01:05pm

The author's probably come back to their posts, Barry. I always do - but even if they don't, each time someone comments on your posts or your wall or sends you a message you'll receive an e-mail letting you know.

Sam Rasnake
Feb 13, 01:06pm

No author possessive in my last comment - Silly keyboard.

Jim V
Feb 13, 01:29pm

I'm happy to find out that my comments do not matter in the count. I prefer commenting to each person individually on the story itself rather than lumping them all together like livestock or heading off to someone's wall.

Barry Friesen
Feb 13, 01:53pm

You're right, Sam. Thank you. I note email link with a story comment sends you back to the story page to reply, too, not to that person's wall. Okay, good. I'll stop thankng people on their walls. Glad to get it clear.

Bill Yarrow
Feb 13, 03:47pm

If I comment on someone's story and he or she thanks me on that page, I do NOT get an email notice of that comment.

I don't usually return to a story that I have already commented on, so I never receive that acknowledgment.

Therefore, I always go to an individual's wall to thank someone for commenting so he or she is notified via email.

Susan Tepper
Feb 13, 04:36pm

Like Bill Yarrow, I DO NOT get an email notice of the person's comment on the story page.

BUT... I find the fav system an excellent "barometer" as to whether your work is reaching out to other people. Especially if you are a writer who is actively submitting manuscripts, stories, novels, etc.

Years ago, we all bitched and moaned because all we ever hardly got back were those printed rejection slips. So we never knew where our work stood!

Now here at Fictionaut we have a bevy of readers to point: Sunny or Stormy.

If nobody reads or comments, chances are pretty good that a publisher isn't going to snap up your work either. So it tells you to work harder (better) or...

Give over your life to jelly bean cultivation!
Ha! Such a great image, the jelly bean.
Somebody (not me) should start a Jelly Bean Group.

Barry Friesen
Feb 13, 05:03pm

I see that you have to say in your "manage account" thing if you want email notifications for comments / private messages / wallposts. There is no option for jelly beans.

Gloria Mindock
Feb 13, 05:12pm

I only fave what I like. My comments usually are very short. I usually read what I want and browse around. Thankfully, no one has ever asked me to fave anything they posted.
I would never do that. I have to really like it to give it a fave.
Those who fave each others work just to fave it are missing the whole point of Fictionaut.

Sam Rasnake
Feb 13, 07:04pm

Bill & Susan,
I don't mean when you comment on my poem, and I respond to your comment. Each time you comment on a poem of mine, I receive an e-mail that includes your comment. I have since I joined FN in 09.

This applies to a poem of mine that's on the main wall. If you comment on an older piece of mine, I don't know if I receive an e-mail. I'm not certain of the older posts.

Bill Yarrow
Feb 13, 07:41pm

"Each time you comment on a poem of mine, I receive an e-mail that includes your comment."
Yes, for me as well.

I mean when I comment on a poem of yours, Sam, and you say thank you back to me in that comment thread, I don't get a notice of your response in an email.

That's why when I want to thank you for commenting on my work, I write you back on your own wall.

Susan Tepper
Feb 13, 08:01pm

Bill, yes, thats what I meant too.
But the wall thing can be a drag, because it takes forever on some walls to get down to where you can finally reach the comment box, because some have so many prior wall postings. Maybe certain postings could be deleted at the wall owners discretion? That would lighten up the wall load considerably.

Pamela J. Parker
Feb 13, 08:37pm

Ah, good idea Susan - hope Jurgen's still following this thread. :-)

Kait Mauro
Feb 13, 09:22pm

Yeah, unless I am asking one specific person for editing suggestions I don't ask anyone to read (and definitely don't ask them to fave!) my stuff. That seems like it defeats the spirit of the site, this isn't a popularity contest.

Susan Gibb
Feb 13, 10:29pm

Okay, great to hear about the comments not affecting standing because I really like thanking folks directly on the piece. It's easier just because of the way I read stuff too.

Franklin Goodish
Feb 15, 03:52pm

Does anyone remember when that loser David Erlewine, that total butthead, posted a story titled "please fave this?" and he got about 15 faves? it was insanity. i hate that a-hole!

Christian Bell
Feb 15, 05:05pm

Oh, I remember that well, George/Brett, and I thought of it during this discussion. What a lame attempt that was, but it worked.

Don't get me started on Erlewhatever. Hey, how are Leonard Dennis and Frank Aikens?

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 15, 06:02pm

You should never feel obligated to fave my work. My self-esteem is never an issue. However ... you could send checks, cash, or money orders instead. If you can't afford to do that, you could ask other people, wealthy, self-indulgent people with summer homes in France and a subtle, overwhelming sense of guilt concerning their fortunate circumstances to send me money in your name.

Patronage is a lost art, one that needs to be revived. Though I would be too thoroughly ashamed to solicit faves for my work, I would never, ever feel the slightest tinge of guilt in asking for money. It's the American way.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." Hunter S. Thompson

Christian Bell
Feb 15, 07:35pm

I second what James says. Send money, or have wealthy people you know do it.

Bill Gates is apparently committed to giving away his entire fortune and I want to know why I haven't seen any of it. I mean, sure, he should give James some first since he posted this idea first, but c'mon, man, there's plenty leftover.

Keith U.
Feb 15, 09:28pm

Curious, someone wrote a piece about me once called "I Hate That A-Hole." I believe in reference to my Phineas Gage-ishness.

Jennifer L. Lopez
Feb 16, 01:48am

wow, i've been away from f'naut for a while.

i've never been directly asked to fave anything. then again, i'm not exactly the most active member of the site either, haha.

but this thread was both informative and entertaining :-)

See ya
Feb 16, 03:10pm

A drink for everyone! Here! Have another!

Okay, now write. Readers are waiting. See them outside the door? The hungry looking folk staring through the windows.

Here...one more drink before you go. And remember -- but keep this under your hat -- you're not really writing for them at all.

You're writing to save your life.

M
Feb 16, 05:19pm

"You're writing to save your life."

yes.
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