Forum / Growth is good...

Sam Rasnake
Aug 11, 03:01pm

Fictionaut is growing, and that’s great. Good for writers and readers.

But… in my opinion, the current system of the visible list of newest works is going to have to change to keep pace with the growing number of writers. As more writers post, each piece will remain visible for shorter periods of time. Simply assigning stories and poems to group pages is not the answer. If the group is large, pieces wouldn’t stay long on the visible list posted works. That list is fairly short. We can’t assume that readers will search the back pages of the main wall or group pages. Most won't.

The change to the list of recommended stories – allowing those stories to stay longer on the visible list – was a good move. A positive change, keeping works deemed strong by readers here available for a longer period of time. I like that. Gives me a chance to read important pieces I might have missed because they disappeared.

Some sort of change in the near future is going to be needed to the visible list of newest stories… or many writers will lose readers and, most likely, find they’ve lost interest in posting works. Most of the new works will simply fall off the charts, and we will miss some good pieces that way. The writers that will suffer the most will be the newest members to FN.

Something to consider.

Carol Reid
Aug 11, 03:29pm

Good point. A person would have to visit the site several times a day to have any hope of keeping up. I wonder if simply separating new posts into short story, flash/micro and poetry categories on the front page would help at all?

D'Arcy Fallon
Aug 11, 03:43pm

And don't forget nonfiction/memoir too as a genre!

Sam Rasnake
Aug 11, 05:32pm

It's 6:29 PM, 8/11 - Sara Lippmann's wonderful micro "Mouthful of Lips" was posted 8 hours ago - The next post to the general wall, and her work disappears from view. Her piece has 11 Favs, so shortly it will appear on the recommended stories list ... but what if it didn't have those favs? It's a good piece and would unfortunately pass off the visible wall list and many readers would miss the chance to read her work.

Matthew A. Hamilton
Aug 11, 05:48pm

Mr. Rasnake,

I see the story, "Mouthful of Pins." Is there another one entitled "Mouthful of Pins?" If so, I can't find it.

Jürgen Fauth
Aug 11, 06:44pm

Hi Sam, thanks for the post. We're trying to keep a close eye on this as we grow and make sure that Fictionaut keeps working. By now, there's a big backlog of people who have requested invites, and we're trying to let them in a little quicker than we have in the past. Front page speed is definitely a concern.

Contacts, the activity feed, and groups are supposed to counteract the effect of too many new stories -- if your friends post, for instance, you're supposed to be able to see it in your activity feed, even if the story has already moved off the front page. If the story has also been added to groups you frequent, you'll have additional chances of seeing it there.

At least that's the idea. I realize that these features could use some improvements and fine-tuning -- I agree, for instance, that groups aren't displaying enough stories at once, and that they should be tied into the front page more tightly.

But -- big sigh -- development is hard to come by. Carson has been incredibly busy, and he's got a mighty backlog of fixes and improvements we'd all love to see. So, if anyone happens to know Ruby on Rails, drop me a line...

In the meantime, please keep letting us know if things are starting to move too fast or become way unmanageable. I'd love to let in more people -- there are lots of great writers clamoring to get in -- but it's a bit of balancing act.

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Aug 12, 09:29am

Thanks for raising this issue Sam, and thanks Jurgen for trying to address. I for one have given up on trying to keep up with all the wonderful writing, and instead have adopted a 'fictionaut' day when I read (though I usually check-in here q 2 days). Usually I read Thursday, sometimes Sunday. So I miss a LOT of stories and poems.

May I suggest another spproch as well? What if we contribute less frequently? Say once a week? There are some writers (and god bless them for their productivity!) who post nearly every 24 hours. I myself post ~ once/week.

Anyway, sure to incur some wrath on this one, but just an idea. Peace...

Kevin Myrick
Aug 12, 10:23am

Linda,

I agree with you: it's hard to read all the good stuff on here when people post a lot. I'd be willing to post just once a week if everyone else would too, so we could all read everything and have more of a chance to comment.

I'd like to hear thoughts on this. Sure, it seems unfair to impose restrictions.

Kevin Myrick
Aug 12, 10:25am

I meant to finish that thought before I hit the enter button by accident.

We'll pick up from where I left off.

... However, I feel like that if we all posted just once a week, it give everyone a chance to really read and comment on work and participate in the community.

I typically get only Sunday to read something, and its likely going to be in the recommended box if anywhere.

David Ackley
Aug 12, 01:16pm

There's a proposition advanced years back called "The Tragedy of the Commons," originally to do with grazing on the English commons, then applied to the environment
( e.g fishing for tuna) now perhaps applicable to fictionaut, which says more or less that when many have equal access to a valuable resource, if everybody tries to maximize his individual advantage the inevitable result is degradation of the common resource.

This is a too-elaborate way of saying I agree with Linda and Kevin and encourage those who post frequently to think about backing it off a bit: Once a week sounds good to me.

Sam Rasnake
Aug 12, 01:52pm

That's an interesting proposal - posting once every 7 days - which is an adaptation of waiting until a piece cycles off the main wall. This would give more opportunity for any reader to view most if not all of the posted works without having to dig.

If 7 days is too long – and it’s not for me – I’m sure the right number of days that would be best suited for most of us could be reached.

I think that would also allow needed space for the larger number of readers and contributors.

I like it.

Kevin Myrick
Aug 12, 02:42pm

I think this idea could be easily coded too if people decide not to follow an honor code on a seven-day posting rule. Right Jurgen?

I'll say that I've been guilty of posting stories at least twice in a 24-hour time period, and the result has been fewer people looking at the work when I do it.

Just saying, posting less often has just as many benefits as being uber-prolific.

It might not be everyone's favorite ideal, but David makes an excellent point about the "The Tragedy of the Commons," (I've seen this too David, by the way.)

I'm done with my two cents.

Jane Hammons
Aug 12, 02:54pm

The idea of limiting the number of posts appeals to me as well, and thanks to Linda for sticking her neck out and suggesting it. Like Sam, I think if 7 days is too long then some other number can be agreed upon.

H-M Brown
Aug 12, 03:01pm

It's funny, nearly one year ago I and few other writers addessed this when we were able to post more than one story a day and found some enthusiastic writers dumping up to eight stories within five minutes, that pushed our works off the front page after less than thirty minutes on Fictionaut.

Thankfully, the once per day rule was implemented and helped a lot for all of us want exposure, but now it evolved into enthusiastic writer's dumping eight stories a week and everyone's stories getting bumped off the front page again. (I know the number is exagerated but still.)

Claire King
Aug 12, 03:49pm

One thing I would find helpful is to be able to see, in the story list of people we follow, which story was published most recently. Sometimes if I have more time than to read the most recent/recommended stories I would like to read the stories of those I've liked before, but so far I haven't found a way to do that except trawling...

Martha Williams
Aug 12, 04:08pm

I've noticed the front page stories whistling past recently, and I would be happy to limit my posting to once a week but, having said that, I read stories by more prolific writers that I really enjoy - I'd hate to restrict their output. Also I've seen some writers post several times in quick succession when posting chapters of (effectively) the same story. These were not overly prolific writers, just someone with a set of related works.
If introducing limits, would it be possible to keep them as informal 'guidelines' e.g. roughly once/twice a week for routine posting - so that exceptions are possible for related pieces...?
As for running Fictionaut - you guys do a great job. This is a wonderful site. We owe you enormous thanks.

Claire King
Aug 12, 04:12pm

Hear, hear, Martha. This site is fantastic, I owe you much gratitude.

Matt Dennison
Aug 12, 11:03pm

welp, no one's posted a new story in over four hours...

Me, I like a little action.

Matt Dennison
Aug 12, 11:07pm

...unless we're all still in time-out.

Bill Yarrow
Aug 12, 11:51pm

I'm going to once a week.

Matt Dennison
Aug 13, 07:32am

I do hope you reconsider, Bill.

James Lloyd Davis
Aug 13, 10:38am

Reconsider what? Did I miss something? God, I hate it when I miss something? Time-out? What does it all mean?

James Lloyd Davis
Aug 13, 10:41am

Ignore that question mark in the third sentence of my last rambling non-sequitor.

Matt Dennison
Aug 13, 03:46pm

Ok? Will do?

Michelle Elvy
Aug 15, 01:18am

Interesting. This is a sticky one -- you do not necessarily want to restrict movement and Martha raises an interesting point about posting chaps that are related... but still, the idea of posting once a week seems reasonable. I take the same approach as some others in this conversation -- if I am lucky, I get here about once a week, to read and maybe post. Sometimes I can read a couple times a week -- and I usually read recommended stories and whatever is most recently posted, and then stories that are linked indirectly or directly (through commenters, etc) to those -- which offers a random assortment of authors and stories and never fails to amuse and astonish.

For me, once a week is fine for posting. It seems reasonable, and fair. Tragedy of the commons indeed: human nature. But it's also human nature to attempt generosity in a community, and I'm all for that. Let's do it for this community. It's awesome.

Ramon Collins
Aug 15, 07:26pm

I've been a proud member of the Zoetrope Writers' Workshop since the beginning. Zoe has a requirement of five reviews for every story posted, with a minimum of 100 words per review. Writers must put some peas in the pot, before eating. A "voluntary" rule would be hard to do.

As I see it, FN is more of a showcase than a workshop -- the "one-a-week" rule would work well for everyone. At least, it might discourage people from digging around their Hope Chests.
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