Forum / Sliding off the front page--what's your reading preference?

• 
  Judith A. Lawrence

  Feb 02, 02:25pm

  The slide off the front page is so rapid I often wonder if what's posted is not such a great story or poem, or it didn't stick around long enough due to prolific posters.

  Aside from reading my own groups, I have a few favorite authors here, so search their work out simply because I like their style. By the time I've read a few I'm satiated, but have used up my reading time so bypass the recent postings at least past the 2nd page.

  To compensate I sometimes skip my groups/favorites and scan several pages or groups that I haven't visited. Every once in a while I find a gem that seems to have gone un-noticed.

• 
  Susan Tepper

  Feb 02, 07:40pm

  It is a lot of stories and they seem to fly by so fast. I often see something after its been posted for a week or more, and then I read it and think: I almost missed seeing this great story or poem. Oh, well. We can only do our best

• 
  Neil Serven

  Feb 08, 02:10pm

  I try to shake things up--perhaps click on a story that someone has listed as a fave on their user page--in the hope that I'll stumble upon something good. And then in reading that person's other stuff, maybe I'll come across someone else (a commenter, perhaps) I hadn't read before.

  But doing that can be fruitless. It seems like a "random story" button might not be a bad idea.

• 
  Susan Gibb

  Feb 09, 01:48pm

  It may be time again to limit folks to one story/week or some such mark. I used to read everything posted but then found if you miss a day you're so far behind it's useless to keep up. Guilt ensued and I've unfortunately given up entirely. Unless I find a new method of reading, but then I feel bad scanning...

• 
  Kim Conklin

  Feb 09, 03:11pm

  I'm experiencing the same guilt, Susan! If you find a solution, please let us know...

• 
  Bill Yarrow

  Feb 09, 03:35pm

  In September I went to posting once a week and I've been MUCH happier ever since.

  Signed,

  A former prolific poster

• 
  stephen hastings-king

  Feb 10, 01:11pm

  i think bill may indicate a path toward enlightenment. only one or more way or ways to find out.

• 
  Linda Simoni-Wastila

  Feb 10, 01:45pm

  Yep. I post once a week or less, and also happier. Gives me more time to read. And I feel less obligated to read everything. Peace...

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 17, 05:51pm

  It appears to me that there is sort of an unwritten etiquette here that not everyone observes. If you post a piece, it just makes sense to wait until that piece is off the front page to post another. I have noticed some of us just go ahead and post three or four pieces day after day, thus denying new work the space. . .

• 
  Gill Hoffs

  Jul 17, 06:08pm

  I thought it was an automatic function of the site that you weren't able to? Hmmm...

  I've been here a month, and I've been trying to immerse myself in all the site has to offer before pulling back a little. So far I've noticed a big effect on my own writing due to the sheer variety and quality of the work available to read here, and the discussions surrounding it. There are certain authors I've come across whose work I seek out. When I notice a piece has 0 comments, or few reads, I get curious and have a read. If nothing else this site has taught me the importance of an arresting title.

  If I unwittingly commit a faux pas as regards site etiquette, please do let me know in a message - in real life, if I can say or do the wrong thing, I inevitably do, though I never mean to.

  Susan Tepper's Monday chats sometimes draw my attention to someone who I'd previously overlooked.

  I think a random button sounds fun!

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 17, 06:10pm

  Ah, what goes around comes around...so we're back here again. As an original kvetcher about over-frequent posting, it's dismaying that what was said before has made a discernible difference only for a few, and the slack left by Bill, Susan G. and others seems to have been gratefully sucked-up by some who took it as an opportunity. This, as I said before replicates the ecological "Tragedy of the Commons," where a scarce resource communally available is degraded by the greedy few.

  Here's a thought: How about we collectively pledge to read no more than one work a week by anyone else. If everyone were to accede to this, there'd presumably be no benefit in posting more often.

  Just a thought...

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 17, 06:14pm

  I meant, if it's not clear, that we observe a reading boycott on any postings by an individual after the first one in a week.

• 
  Linda Simoni-Wastila

  Jul 17, 06:32pm

  I so pledge.

  There are people I never read because they post so frequently. I myself post ~1/week. Peace...

• 
  Joani Reese

  Jul 17, 06:52pm

  I've posted quite a few pieces in the last couple of weeks because I hadn't posted anything in about six months. My work schedule is such that it's almost impossible for me to do anything but stop by most weeks for a quick hit-and-run read. I apologize if my frequent posting as of late has miffed anyone. I promise I will walk away and only become a reader again very soon. I agree that there are some folks who post daily and I must confess I do tend to skip over their work as a sort of knee-jerk reaction to the implied selfishness. Oh my, I have met the enemy and he is me...

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 17, 07:53pm

  "It appears to me that there is sort of an unwritten etiquette here that not everyone observes. If you post a piece, it just makes sense to wait until that piece is off the front page to post another. I have noticed some of us just go ahead and post three or four pieces day after day, thus denying new work the space. . ."

  I really dislike the idea of boycotting or any negative actions. I don't even think we need to post only once a week. Just wait until your current piece leaves the front page befor you post another. Am I the only one who sees this as an option ???

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 17, 08:21pm

  Joani, You are NOT guilty. You and Casey Anthony. The biggest offenders are few and know who they are and yet they continue to post new work before a current piece of theirs leaves the front page, thereby denying others a chance to be posted. This is a case of their ACTIONS speaking far louder than their WORDS. . .

• 
  Gill Hoffs

  Jul 17, 08:30pm

  Oops - I've been posting more frequently than one a week, for sure, because I thought the forum wouldn't let you post more work until your current piece was off the 'Newest' strand, page 1, and that once you were off there, you were fine to go again or else it would havbe been set up differently. Like I said, I've been here a month and never came across any kind of code of conduct for the site or I'd have observed it - please feel free to point me towards it if it's on here somewhere, I maybe just haven't stumbled over it yet.

  If I'd known it upset people or was seen as 'greedy' then I would definitely have held back. I think from now on I shall have a certain day of the week where I shall attempt to post something [health/small child allowing]. Please bear in mind, guys - especially those who have more experience in forums and literary websites in general - that some of us are very new to all this and won't know about stuff like this unless it's pointed out to us. Directly.

  I'm glad I read this thread so I know. Sorry again!

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 17, 08:38pm

  Gill, You are also NOT guilty, so don't give it another thought. As part of an update to the FAQ site, I suggested to Jurgen that this was becoming a problem and that a posting "suggestion" be included in the FAQ's. As it stands now, there are no rules or cues for newcomers to FN. Jurgen and Carson have promised to "tweak" the FAQ site and address some of these issues, while also making it easier to find. . .

• 
  Linda Simoni-Wastila

  Jul 17, 09:15pm

  No one's miffed, at least not me, and if I miffed anyone with my comment, that was not my intention. No one here, imho, posts too frequently. We all go in fits and spurts; I just happen to post weekly and happy if anyone reads. As for reading, I have so little time I pretty much read when I have a spare hour, which usually falls on Thursdays and Sundays. I wish I had more time. Peace...

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 17, 10:13pm

  The speed with which pieces cycle off the front page is the result of two things: the number of people posting, which appears to have increased significantly; and the number of pieces posted which owes also to people who persist in posting as often as possible.
  If we overwhelm readers with work it's not going to get read. Giving people a breather from your work leaves space for others to post theirs and get it read, and makes the site better in encouraging us all to be generous in our use of it.

• 
  Lynn Beighley

  Jul 17, 11:41pm

  I've whined about this again and again. Simple, programmatic fix: Let users post once a week. The end. This site grows, we invite more users, which is wonderful. We all want our chance in the spotlight.

  I love f'naut. I've been staying away lately because I've been uninspired, and because posting here is fruitless. Who has time to read it? Anyway, maybe I'm back. Maybe I'll post once a week. Maybe I hope you'll have a chance to read it.

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 17, 11:59pm

  Welcome back, Lynn. I have missed you. Your work is so good. I am posting very little as I learned most print only lit mags won't take my work if it's been posted here. And that's where I want most of my work to be for now. So, I'll have lots of time to read your stuff. . .

• 
  Jürgen Fauth

  Jul 18, 12:50pm

  Hi all,

  we're aware that the front page tends to move too fast these days, and it's nobody's fault but ours. We've got a lot (and I mean a lot) of requests from people who'd like to join the site, and we're doing our best to fill them (and give out invites to members as well) -- but whenever we let in new writers, the front page speeds up as a result, and sooner or later somebody brings up posting limits.

  Fictionaut does have a hardcoded posting limit. You're not able to post a new story while an older one is still on the list of latest stories on the front page. Beyond that, we'd rather not make any hard and fast rules. People use Fictionaut in a number of ways, and if somebody would like to post, say, several revisions to a workshop group in quick succession, I wouldn't want to make that impossible.

  The answer to these woes is a redesign. We've been trying to get this done for a while, and it finally looks like we'll be able to try out a few ideas soon. The goal is to make it easier to stay abreast of what's happening on the site without imposing any limits. Of course we'll be looking for your feedback to make sure these changes actually work when the time comes. I'm very excited about the possibilities.

  Until then, I hope you can find ways to keep Fictionaut useful for everybody. Ideally, the "recent activity" feed of people you follow, groups, and the dedicated "most recent stories" page (http://www.fictionaut.com/stories/sort?by=most_recent) would allow you to keep up with new work.

  Oh, and speaking of front page speed: I don't know if anyone noticed, but Carson made some tweaks under the hood that should make the front page load much faster in your browsers.

• 
  Jane Hammons

  Jul 19, 02:43am

  I did notice the new speedloading front page and appreciate it a lot. Thanks, Carson!

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 19, 03:25am

  Jurgen,
  I'm not sure what you mean by the list of "latest stories" but right now my front page shows three stories by the same individual posted less than 24 hours apart.

• 
  Jürgen Fauth

  Jul 19, 05:47am

  You're right, David - the automatic limiting I was talking about doesn't seem to be working, or Jerry figured out a way around it. That's not supposed to happen. We'll look into it.

• 
  Lynn Beighley

  Jul 19, 11:37am

  Probably he unpublishes, publishes a new piece, then republishes the first one.

  I still feel that limits make a lot of sense, given that the community will keep growing. It's bad now, it's only going to get worse.

  Jurgen, you cite the example of someone workshopping a piece and wanting to post it repeatedly. That's a great use for this site, but the work on the front page ought to be considered a bit more special, a bit more polished. As writers seeking readers, we should want to attract new readers to the site and put our best work in front of them, not show them draft efforts. Or do I miss the point?

  Can you give us the option to post to the front page or not? And leave it "off" by default, we have to actively choose to post to the front page?

  Maybe if there were categories of new posts? (Already published, never published, in progress, feedback wanted, poetry, prose?)

  I'm certain I'm not the only one who feels this way.

• 
  Christopher Allen

  Jul 19, 12:57pm

  I think a commitment to browse creatively through Fictionaut stories (not always leaping to the most recent or the most highly recommended) would help the community. I LOVE Lynn's suggestion about creating categories and wanted to propose this as well. Categories would open up the entry pages to pieces and would keep them current longer. Right?

• 
  Sam Rasnake

  Jul 19, 02:27pm

  Jurgen's point "Fictionaut does have a hardcoded posting limit. You're not able to post a new story while an older one is still on the list of latest stories on the front page." - is no longer a feature here at FN. We are able to have mulitple postings.

  Eons ago, there were either 10 or 12 pieces - don't recall the exact number - rotating on the main wall. There was no way for me to post another piece until my work on the wall rotated off. The FN settings wouldn't allow me to post on the wall until my other post was off. The number of works rotating on the front wall expanded to its present form of 17 stories/poems - and that's been a great help / I like that - but FN settings now allow for multiple postings.

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 02:50pm

  Why doesn't someone just say it? Jerry Ratch, no one here likes the fact that you seem to think your work is so important that you often have two or three pieces on the front page. Thereby denying others a chance to publish. It's selfish, childish behavior and and the magority of the people here don't appreciate it. Con Chapman, you, too seem to be doing this. C'mon, guys. Show some common courtesy to others who would like a chance to see their work on the front page. . .

• 
  Sam Rasnake

  Jul 19, 02:57pm

  Multiple posts have happened with at least 12 different writers, that I can remember reading on the main wall ... I'm sure there are others, in the last few weeks and months. This, most likely, is because we thought that, as before, Fictionaut was limiting our posts as the settings once did. Once, we couldn't post a new piece until our previous piece rotated off the main wall. That's no longer the case, so we may not even think about it - especially those of us who have posted here for several years - believing that FN limited us.

  The limit settings in FN need to be changed to prevent this as those settings once did.

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 03:00pm

  magority = majority

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 03:10pm

  "The limit settings in FN need to be changed to prevent this as those settings once did"

  Sure would solve a lot of problems. . .Sorry to be so heated about this but I dislike seeing anyone take unfair advantage.

  This just to me from Con Chapman:

  " As I understand it Fictionaut is self-regulating--I don't do anything to make my posts appear other than write them. Whatever I put up disappears as other people post stuff, so I'm not blocking anybody, and anyone can advance the queue simply by posting their own content. I post here less often here than I do on other sites--Gather, OpenSalon--because those sites don't have queues like Fictionaut. No offense intended to anyone."

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 03:19pm

  I just tried to publish two stories - the first one went through. Got this message with the second:

  Note: You recently published another story. To publish this story, you must wait until your other is no longer on the front page of the site.
  

• 
  Lynn Beighley

  Jul 19, 04:01pm

  I think that when your story is in the last few places on the page, you can double publish. Seems like it.

• 
  Lynn Beighley

  Jul 19, 04:07pm

  There was a time fewer stories were on the front page. There's likely a line of code somewhere that has the old number hardcoded and says:

  When Lynn tries to post a new story, check the X most recent stories to see if she has one still on the front page. If she does, don't let her post.

  X is probably less than 17.

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 06:01pm

  Lynn, is is it possible that the "you can't post another story because you have one on 1st page message" somehow ceases to function after a certain amount of time whether or not your story is gone from first page? So I couldn't post two in succession. but if I try to go back say, six hours later and add another one, even tho the first one is still on front page, it would let me.

• 
  Lynn Beighley

  Jul 19, 06:03pm

  I think it's more where you are on the page. I don't think any of the code checks how long your stories have been posted. You should wait until your piece is near the bottom, maybe in the 14th or 15th spot, and then try to post another. I predict that will work.

  I was in the 17th spot (the bottom) and was able to post a new one, which pushed my other off the page.

  But I could be wrong, and we should experiment. :)

• 
  Sam Rasnake

  Jul 19, 06:09pm

  MaryAnne, posting multiple stories doesn't have anything to do with time between posts, but does have to do with the number of additional stories between posts. If you were to wait until your post is #11 on the main wall, you would probably be able to post a second story. Before #11, the FN settings prevent you from posting. That's how the system worked before the main wall was expanded to 17. My thinking is that we have an old blocking system - preventing multiple posts in a wall designed for 10 posts - with an expanded wall holding up to 17 posts.

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 06:22pm

  Sam, since you and Lynn are both far more computer literate than I, I'm guessing you are right. So if it's just a simple matter of extending the cut-off past the number of stories on the page it should be easy to fix?

  Maybe Carson will see this and do something about it. As I said to Lynn, I wish there were a way to get beyond the whole "first page concept" but as I am totally without programming skills I have no altrnative to offer. . .for the present if people would just wait to post a second piece until after the first one leaves the page that would solve some of the problems, yes? Of course that would mean an Honor System of sorts would have to be "honored". . . . .

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 06:28pm

  For the record, I am not asking these questions for myself. I have pretty much stopped posting here as I am submitting my work to Print Only venues at this time and for the most part they will not accept a piece that has been "published" here. Glimmertrain, as Chris pointed out, is a rare exception.

• 
  Jürgen Fauth

  Jul 19, 06:36pm

  I suspect what Sam and others have said is right - when we raised the number of stories displayed on the front, the number of stories posted before you can repost didn't get raised accordingly. Carson is currently on a Mexican beach somewhere but I'll try to reach him and and ask him to fix this as soon as possible. Thanks for the other suggestions; we'll consider and make changes as soon as he's back.

• 
  MaryAnne Kolton

  Jul 19, 06:48pm

  Thanks Jürgen. Please don't bother Carson if he's into the whole Mexican beach thing. We can, no doubt, live with it until he returns.
  As long as you are aware of the issue, that's enough. Nice that you are responding on a regular basis. . .

• 
  Christopher Allen

  Jul 19, 08:13pm

  Best not to bother him if he's drinking as many margaritas as I drink when I'm "lying" (read unconscious) on a Mexican beach.

• 
  Susan Gibb

  Jul 21, 10:35pm

  Wow. I haven't been able to catch up here at Fictionaut and am glad to see this old bugaboo revisited. It's one of the reasons I stopped posting. Then I just stopped reading Jerry's or Con's work, or anyone I'd just read within the hour.

  With limited time, and hundreds of members, it's ridiculous to read several by the same people posted within the 24-hour period. It's rude to take over the site. Let them get a weblog and write to their heart's content. I write daily, a flash piece every day this year (up to 203/365 right now) and wouldn't think of abusing the system of a community by grabbing more space. If there are 17 or 30 on the front page, and hundreds of members, people should be able to figure out what's fair.

  Glad to see that it's being addressed. Fictionaut is too great a place to abandon it to the riff-raff. ;-)

• 
  Bobbi Lurie

  Jul 24, 01:08am

  All of these posts convince me that when I have time to sit and read, I will read older submissions first.

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