Forum / FAVES

Gloria Garfunkel
Dec 07, 12:58pm

James Lloyd Davis, the only member of the 50+ fave group, made a really good point, that faves used to be bestowed much more generously and there are fewer and fewer. A fave makes a writer feel encouraged. He suggested we view them not so much as Academy Awards, but just a recommendation that you liked this story. I've only been here since June and initially faved almost everything so that I had no room for my fave list and took it off. But also, I've gotten way more stingy. A story has to really knock my socks off to get a fave.It has to be unforgettable. And there are several a week, at least every day. But what's too stingy and what's too liberal with faves? Do you agree with James that it is just a recommendation? If so, I'll have to rethink my process and go back to doling out lots of faves. Or, more ominously, does the decline in faves mean the decline of the quality of the work being posted? What are your thoughts?

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 01:26pm

I am not a cynical person, but on some level all writer sites are basically a circle jerk. I put much more value on an honest comment than on a fave click.

Gloria Garfunkel
Dec 07, 01:52pm

I totally agree with you that thoughtful comments that have clearly absorbed your work are the ideal. And, yeah, I think the fave system is kind of juvenile and unsophisticated in contrast. It encourages game-playing, "trading faves," strategizing all sorts of ways that have nothing to do with the story to get that last point so I can join TEN! I have been flabbergasted at some of the chess maneuvers (really more like checkers).

Please define a circle jerk for me.

I hate caring about faves. It's like the star chart system in kindergarten more than the Academy Rewards. But it seems to function to raise to the top of people's perceptions some of the best work. There doesn't seem to be another way to do that. Is there? What would this site look like without faves? Would there be more discussion, perhaps?

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 02:11pm

A circle jerk is when a group of like minded guys get together and jerk each other off. Everyone is happy but nothing much gets accomplished.

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 02:14pm

There are different lists for stories here. One is "most read." I give that list as much attention as the recommended list.

Gary Hardaway
Dec 07, 02:16pm

Writers are needy people. I like faves- receiving and giving them- because they promote recognition of work that most of us do for free. Coupled with an insightful comment, they are a tonic. These little stars are the currency of this virtual agora.

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 02:23pm

I don't have anything against them. But I know which works of mine are good and which suck.
I'm more concerned with getting people to read them then getting them to like or fave them.

Gloria Garfunkel
Dec 07, 02:28pm

They do seem like a pat on the back, a smile, an encouragement in the most succinct way possible. It does feel great to get a fave.When I don't get faves, I go back to see if there is something wrong with the story. We are needy. I'm needy. I'm just trying to figure out what my standards need to be, how liberal. Being here a couple of months, I still haven't figured that out yet except for the outstanding pieces.

Gary Hardaway
Dec 07, 02:53pm

For me, each day brings a different threshold. Rigorous methodology doesn't work well for the lazy ground sloth I am.

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 02:58pm

I just assume that if someone read my story, they must have loved it.

James Lloyd Davis
Dec 07, 03:16pm

Assumptions abound. If a story has a large number of reads early on at Fn, chances are the author has tweeted, facebooked and emailed a heads up to everyone on the planet, so the number of reads is hardly an indication that someone loved the story over and above any other. Positive comments are no indication of 'quality' and neither are faves. They are different things to the various people who issue them.

Doesn't matter really. Posting on Fictionaut is not an appearance in the Paris Review. Whatever your reason for being here, no writer should be ideologically opposed to encouraging other writers. Else, what's the purpose of such a place as Fictionaut?

Circle jerks? It's been my experience that jerks don't usually succeed socially, so the idea of any number of them sitting in a circle seems more like mythology to me.

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 03:24pm

Well, of course I tweet, facebook whenever I publish here. I agree that number of reads is no indication of whether the story is any good for other writers. I'm just talking about me here.

And don't fret James. Our circle always has room for one more.

Darryl Price
Dec 07, 04:47pm

A fave is just a fave. It's like in school when you were given a little golden paper star. I have to say I like it.It's shiny(use your imagination), But my favorite thing is a little personal note. I love hearing from other writers who found some movement within themselves after reading one of my works. It gives me a good feeling of when I'm doing something right or might at least be going in the right direction. I'm all for originality, but I don't write because I want to hide my words away, I write to share those words. Giving stars to other writers is my own way to say,wow, this really worked for me, thank you for sharing it, I'm glad I was made aware of it, it means something to me now. You know it's a bit of an energy wave passed back and forth between us.And by the way Adam a circle jerk is when you stand around in a circle with a gang your own age when you are a boy and jerk off,shouting out the names of certain girls you'd like to know better,and have a laugh,not when you jerk someone else off. Jeesh!

Adam Sifre
Dec 07, 06:04pm

No wonder I never get invited back.

Mathew Paust
Dec 07, 06:37pm

Adam, I suppose that would depend on the nature of a particular circle.

As to the issue at hand (sorry, girls) I'm with Gary on this one...in fact his comments--both of them--so closely reflect my own views I'm beginning to wonder if I am he or he is I or him or me or who or what.

Speaking of games, it seems some here, evidently senior members who are known to each other by the subtlest of nuances, enjoy changing their names and avatars periodically. I figured this out because I keep rigorous track of my followees. The other day I noticed one of them was GONE! After enduring a painful series of paranoid flashes during which I wondered in horror if indeed one could detach oneself from a follower without any conscious input from said follower. Fueling this daytime nightmare was the appearance on my list of a NEW followee unrecognized at that moment by me. Fortunately my meds kicked in before the screaming started and my neocortex took over, parsed the apparent conundrum and set me free.

The only question remaining then--strictly academic at this point--for me, anyway, is why? I'll take my answer off the air.

Mathew Paust
Dec 07, 07:39pm

I just now received an answer to my question, from at least one of the shape shifters. I might have guessed, but I'm not much of a guesser. A wholly satisfactory explanation, I should add.

Dolemite
Dec 07, 07:44pm

What did they say?

Mathew Paust
Dec 07, 08:34pm

@Harold, akin to the Witness Protection Program-type rationale. Adds a little spice to the mix here. I'm thinking of doing it myself, as I've recently learned an enraged editor whose rewrites I spurned is after my ass.

MichaelDickes
Dec 07, 11:51pm

Another instance where I can snag a line from JLD.

"Doesn't matter really. Posting on Fictionaut is not an appearance in the Paris Review."

I joined F'naut to the free beer. I also stalked, ahem, met my wife here who is not only a fine writer, but a sweet piece of ass as well.

Hey, why isn't there any bickering going on yet?

Oh, shit - my spam is burning...gotta run.

xox

Mathew Paust
Dec 07, 11:58pm

dicks, you dicke!

Dolemite
Dec 08, 12:04am

Soldier! THis is your spam! Learn it! Live it! Love it!

You take care of it and it will take care of you!

James Lloyd Davis
Dec 08, 12:30am

Spam is mentioned in the Book of the Apocalypse as one of the seven signs of the beginning of the end. And if you calculate the numbers of his name, Justin Bieber's the Anti-Christ.

Should we worry? I'm just saying...

MichaelDickes
Dec 08, 01:13am

MP - Your missing an e and an s and that could lead to a dangling dicksickle, sir!

HN - You notta maka sensuh

JLD - Bread it with crushed up pork rinds on the 21st and everything will be ok.

Sally Houtman
Dec 08, 02:26am

Man, I'm late to this party.

My invitation must've got lost in the mail.

All I know is...someone better start favihng the shit out of something soon so JLD can get some company in that group.

He's like the Maytag repair man down there at the bottom of the main page.

It's just sad.

Sally Houtman
Dec 08, 02:28am

Can someone pass me the spam.

Or did yall finish it before I got here.

Michael Gillan Maxwell
Dec 10, 08:58pm

Bacon Wrapped Spam Bites (52 yums _ kinda like faves, only different)
Ingredients
2 tablespoons apple juice
0.5 cup honey mustard
1 package Hormel® Black Label® Bacon
1 12-ounce can SPAM® Classic cut into 32 cubes
0.25 cup packed brown sugar
Directions Launch Kitchen View
1Heat oven to 400ºF.2Partially cook bacon; drain on paper towel. Cut each slice bacon in half.3Wrap bacon around each cube SPAM® Classic; secure with wooden pick. In 13x9-inch baking dish, place SPAM® bites.4In bowl, combine mustard, brown sugar and apple juice; mix well. Drizzle mustard mixture over bacon-wrapped SPAM®. Bake 15 to 20 minutes or until bacon is crisp.

Frankie Saxx
Dec 10, 09:35pm

I treat favorites like bookmarking. Basically, if I think, "I might want to read this again," I slap a favorite on it.

Sally Houtman
May 22, 07:23am

Does anyone else miss this thread?

Letitia Coyne
May 22, 07:47am

No.

But I did hear that insects are the food of the future. Bacon wrapped weta, anyone?

That will make no sense at all after next profile renovation, but for now anyway. Mmmmmmm, bacon and giant cricket thing....

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-13/un-says-insects-could-be-food-of-the-future/4687132

Lxx

Sally Houtman
May 22, 08:27am

You are a cruel, cruel woman.

:)

Sally Houtman
May 22, 08:28am

And admit it. You *do* miss this thread!

Letitia Coyne
May 22, 08:54am

Okay. A bit. When I'm googling literary snacks.

Lxx

Gessy Alvarez
May 22, 04:07pm

"Writers need feedback from both living readers and dead writers."

This was my facebook status a couple of days ago. Recycling it here seems appropriate.

Hi everyone!

Sally Houtman
May 22, 07:38pm

You *do* miss this thread!

I knew it.

Joani Reese
May 22, 09:49pm

Sally!!!!!!!!!!! Since Matt is not here right now, I must do this for all of us: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw

Sally Houtman
May 22, 10:06pm

I miss this one, too.

http://fictionaut.com/forums/general/threads/2576

That was fun.

Joani Reese
May 22, 10:15pm

How about finding a nice sharp stick and then a large wasp nest to poke instead? Even a bee hive will do in a pinch, but make sure you wear your floppy bedroom slippers and a dress that tangles round your knees.

Sally Houtman
May 22, 10:21pm

:)

Barry Basden
May 22, 10:54pm

Only reminds me, sadly, that James Lloyd Davis doesn't exist anymore--according to fnaut anyway...

Joani Reese
May 22, 11:25pm

He's alive and well. He will be back. Fictionaut has exaggerated his non-existence.

Gloria Garfunkel
May 23, 12:10am

Joanie and Sally:

"HYPERGRAPHIA: an overwhelming urge to write associated with hypomanic episodes in bipolar disorder, often disorganized and illogical."

"STOP IT" worked along with meds.

Alternately, wasps would have been lethal, depending on your goal.

Gloria Garfunkel
May 23, 12:22am

..."rambling and repetitive." On the other hand at least a few wasps may be needed.

Gloria Garfunkel
May 23, 06:39pm

You should consider them. They work on mean girls, too.

Charlotte Hamrick
May 24, 02:37am

Late to the convo & not inclined to read everyone's comments, especially after the boys got into talking about their penises. (ho hum)

I fave when I enjoyed reading a piece - simple as that. I like faves because I don't always want to go into detail about WHY I liked it. Liking it is enough. (For me, anyway.)

Charlotte Hamrick
May 24, 02:38am

Good Lord. I just saw this thread began in December. Nevermind.

Frankie Saxx
May 24, 07:53am

lol @ Charlotte. The internet is like that season of Lost when they're zooming through time. You know, before dead John Locke brings them all back to the island & they get the hydrogen bomb from the underground temple and use it to blow up the pocket of electromagnetic energy. Less facial bleeding on the internet, though.

Charlotte Hamrick
May 25, 04:03am

Ha! I do indeed know the scenario you're referring to. Bingo!

Ann Bogle
Jun 05, 03:28am

A few excellent and well-turned writers seem missed by faves almost regularly. I realized today that the ones I am thinking of are older writers, over 60? 50? I find myself among them, as of last year, too old for faves. Yet those writers soldier on, shoulder on, should go on, Folgers on, followers noting their lines and chapters and spaces.

Barry Basden
Jun 05, 02:07pm

Ha, Ann. We soldier on, solder on, older on. Here is a likely reason, eloquently put by Richard Hackler:

http://passagesnorth.com/2013/05/writers-on-writing-38-richard-hackler/

Charlotte Hamrick
Jun 05, 06:04pm

Wow, thanks for sharing that link @Barry. It's nice to realize others feel the way I do. It's a point of consternation to me, now and then when I dwell on it, that really no one in my family or among my friends cares that I write. I do feel lucky that I've been contacted by people who've read my work online and appreciated it but it's not the same (for me) as support from a IRL friend or family member. That's why the support from a community such as this can keep one going - many of us are in the same boat.

John Riley
Jun 05, 06:37pm

I wish others in my life took more interest in my work. But what is more important to me is that I do it. I let life and life's bullshit separate me from writing for most of my years. Now I'm not so young anymore and I'm writing furiously, sometimes too furiously, because I can't imagine dying without doing so. I can die unknown and forgotten, well aware someone will format or recycle my life's work away soon after I've drawn my last breath, but while I'm alive I've finally turned myself over to this compulsion and, regardless of how hard it is sometimes, I feel so damn wonderful for finally doing so.

Susan Gibb
Jun 05, 06:54pm

John, my feeling lately is similar to yours. I once refused to self-publish and yet, even with no great desire to make money off my work or insisting others read it, I would at least like to leave it bound together in book form. For me, that might offer the hope that while it kicks around for a few years on some poor relative's shelf out of some sense of loyalty until it's tossed, at least it doesn't die with my hard drive, or with the weblogs or other online files.

Ann Bogle
Jun 06, 05:28am

I love that, John Riley.

A binding for pages is necessary.

David John King
Jun 06, 07:04am

This forum was beginning to sound like a bunch of immature school kids (or worse, like something you'd see on Facebook - puerility unlimited) until John Riley and Susan Gibb weighed in. They're right. We do what we do because we want or need to do it. Whether other people like what we write, hate what we write or fall somewhere in between is entirely up to them. Read the Desiderata. None of us are on this planet to please anyone else. Of course, I like it if people like what I write. But I don't write something expecting they will...or won't.
I write to express something that interests me.

Jane Flett
Jun 06, 09:06am

Barry, I love that link. Thanks.

Ann, really?! I find it hard to judge ages on the internet, but on Fictionaut I thought lots of the most popular writers were in that age bracket.

Anyway, here's to writing for ourselves! Write to impress your non-writer friends, and you'll end up super pissed because they have never heard of Glimmer Train and don't understand why you'd get excited about $700 for a story that took 8 months of work. Write to impress your writer friends, and you'll be forever competing for the same successes...

Sally Houtman
Jun 06, 10:12am

I'm in it for the faves.

That's it.

That's why I write.

Barry Basden
Jun 06, 12:32pm

Okay, Sally, here you go: *

;-)

Joani Reese
Jun 06, 01:18pm

From what I can see on the recommended list this week, most of the writers are 50+ (not to offend anyone who isn't and might find that a criticism somehow), and I'm with Sally. I couldn't write without the Fictionaut *'s. They validate me.

Barry Basden
Jun 06, 01:41pm

@Joani. Did you write b/f fnaut? What would you do if, oh the horror, fnaut went away?

But you're just selling wolf tickets, right? ;-)

Joani Reese
Jun 06, 01:44pm

Barry--WRITE before Fictionaut? How is that even possible??? Did you? Did others??? Really? My writing sprung whole from the Fictionaut godhead.

David John King
Jun 06, 01:57pm

It's actually getting WORSE than Facebook.

Barry Basden
Jun 06, 02:07pm

Oh, David, please do 'splain youself.

Charlotte Hamrick
Jun 06, 04:02pm

Actually, IMO, insulting people because you don't agree with their comments is the ultimate in high schoolery. The reasons people do anything they do is personal and shouldn't be held up for ridicule. Certainly not by so-called adults.
I may have to duck out for another month to my FaceBook account where people are civil.

Barry Basden
Jun 06, 06:38pm

Yes @Charlotte. You have to be careful here. Lots of things have gone on more or less notoriously: trading faves, cliques & secret societies, flame wars, hidden complaints, confidences broken, some good writers leaving, some kicked out, others lying dormant, and and and...

Sometimes it has even spilled over to, yes, even Facebook.

I enjoy many of the posts here, have found several pieces that resonate and find their way into CPR. This is also a nice place to gather my own scattered pieces from around the net. Some I make public, some remain private.

And I usually stay in my lane, too, for much of the shenanigans at fnaut are painful to watch, writing being such a solitary and lonely endeavor anyway.

Such a deal. Will try to, like the WWII Brits often said--though in much more dire circumstances--Stay Calm & Carry On....

Ann Bogle
Jun 07, 04:02am

Barry, I read Richard Hackler's essay, and a shot of sun hit my room tonight. Good piece! So I want to remember his name and look for it again and remember it if I see it.

"I tell these students that I admire them. Because writing has never seemed therapeutic to me. I’ve never kept a journal, and I don’t write anything when I’m upset. I know my thoughts already. I have to live with them all the time. Why would I want to write them out? They’ll still be in my head, only now they’ll also be on a piece of paper. This is what I’ve said to my students. But I’m beginning to understand what they mean."

Ann Bogle
Jun 07, 04:08am

50 and a much more serious writer. The laugh is darker than at 30, the laugh is harder, darker, quicker, and longer than at 30. At 30, 27+ gals in class did not laugh or seize humor, wit yes, jokes, no. I could, almost, grasp jokes, and so it was fitting that age discrimination set in just then, at 31.

David Ackley
Jun 07, 01:43pm

The laugh is harder than at 30
the laugh is harder
darker quicker longer
than at 30

At 30 27+ gals in class
did not laugh or sieze humor
wit yes
jokes no

I could almost grasp jokes
and so it was fitting
that age discrimination
set in
just then
at 31

Some people can't help writing poetry.
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