Forum / Getting published

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 14, 08:10am

Dear Writers:

As I have grown more and more familiar with Fictionaut's different writers, I've seen that so many of you are published in a variety of venues, from on-line 'zines with odd names like "Apple Butter" (OK, I made that up) to big 'ol literary heavyweight print magazines. My "genre" (hate that label, but there it is) for the most part is non-fiction-memoir, personal essay, and yes, a little fiction too (usually non-fiction with a trick or treat bag and a mask).

I have sent my stuff out to literary contests and the answer is always, um, no thank you. Which is the way it goes. You pays your money and you takes your chances. But I would love to see some of these tales find a home. Here are my questions regarding sending out work NOT for contests:

What are your feelings about on-line 'zines versus print ones?

Should I forget about print literary magazines as far as sending out work?

I'm stymied and discouraged and don't know the magic word to get into the club.

Does anyone else wrestle with these publishing questions? Any feedback/insight would be welcome.

Thanks,

D'Arcy

Gary Percesepe
Jul 14, 09:08am

d,

as far as memoir--it's having it's day out there, and there are many print venues to choose from. the antioch review (bob fogarty) likes memoir and has been featuring it of late, and there are many many others to choose from. (speaking of the AR, bob is also a champion of the almost-disappearing essay form.)

regarding online/print, you will find that fictionauts have been hashing that out for a long time, in this forum--just scroll through and you will see lots of threads. it has been a lively and productive discussion, and you will probably launch another one---right now!

online, word riot publishes an interesting thing called "stretching forms" (or somesuch)--they just took a piece of mine that was truly strange ("women & men) and did not seem to fit as anything--they like that kind of thing.

best of luck--you're a helluva writer,

g

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 14, 10:43am

Dear Gary-

You're a helluva writer too! And thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions. I will check out word riot. And I will go back through old threads to see what others have to say about this.

Warmly,

D'Arcy

Darryl Price
Jul 14, 01:16pm

I don't think there is any one good way to get your stuff out there, but it helps to know people. Half the battle is just getting someone to take a look. I mean there is no end to the onslaught of good and interesting stuff coming out of the universal writer's hand. My best guess would be Writer's Digest or Small Press Review or something else that can plug you into something wider. But the search for a home for your stuff has to start somewhere, and Fictionaut itself is a great place to be seen and heard and maybe scooped up for publication. The important thing is to continue to write in spite of the hardships. I've felt overlooked and ignored myself so many times I can no longer count them. Carry on. Your time is gonna come.You'rE TERRIFIC!

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 14, 01:27pm

Dear DP - Thank you for the encouraging words. Yes, knowing people helps. Just an FYI: (and I'm sure you already know this)- A great source for submissions/contests/etc. is newpages.com. Thank you, pal.

D'Arcy

James Lloyd Davis
Jul 14, 01:50pm

Yes, Newpages is the great source. Being an old guy and something of a snot about online publications, I would normally say ... go print ... but the times change and so many literary mags (print) seem to be a bit sloppy about even getting back to you with rejections. It's understandable since many of them are part-time academic ventures that rely on students to do the filtration of growing numbers of submissions for fewer available pages. I've had very little experience with the online zines and I even wonder if online mags have street creds in terms of validation. (God ... I'm using slang, and not very well either. Stop me, please!)

I'll be watching here to see if there's a consensus one way or t'other 'bout this. Thanks for bringing this up, D'Arcy.

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 14, 02:47pm

James, thanks for addressing this topic head-on. I'm a geezer too (in my mid-50s) so I admit to a bias towards print as well, but jeez, it seems like online is a much more open medium. It just seems like there are a gazillion online venues. Like you, I worry about not wanting to send stuff to some zine that isn't a good fit or is too obscure.

Thanks,

D'Arcy

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Jul 14, 03:05pm

Geezers unite!

Um, but I prefer the on-line mags -- more exposure, usually. Though if you aim high for print, there can be tremendous pay-off (and I'm talking The Atlantic, NYer, Glimmer Train, etc). But my chances of hitting those markets are pretty close to infinitesimal, so I'll 'settle' for readers over 'quality'.

That said, not all onlines are created equal. Plunging in, one gets a sense for 'quality'. I find duotrope a good initial barometer by looking at stats, paying status (pro/semi/fledgling market). And, you can sort for those mags that do non-fic, poetry, flash, shorts, novellas, novel excerpts, screen, podcasts, arts, yadayadayada). BTW, duotrope covers both online and print.

Mostly, though, I look where the writers who I respect pub, and if my stuff's up to snuff, I might find the courage to lick a stamp or press send.

Good-luck. I agree with what Gary said -- I've enjoyed what I'ver read of yours. Peace...

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 14, 03:28pm

Linda, thank you! You made me laugh with "Geezers unite." It really is a crap shoot, isn't it? (About publishing, not being a geezer. Hell, I'm glad I'm a geezer. Now if I can only make it to cranky old bitch status!) I will definitely check out duotrope. The writers I'm nuts about tend to get published in places like Tin House, The New Yorker, and other unreachable venues (for me). I'll nose around and see if there is a good middle or lower ground. Thanks for your kind words about my work.

Best,

D'Arcy

See ya
Jul 14, 03:43pm

Don't feel discouraged, is first things of firsts. This will seem like generalized advice, but just work your craft to the best of your abilities. Finish a piece and then consider publication once that process is complete. The writing, as you know, is the highest priority.

Breece Pancake said, "I don't write to make a living." I think once a writer allows this mindset to settle in, the work, the true and honest and real work, will come. When that happens, publication will follow as naturally as the next season.

More specifically, as to online vs. print, as Gary said, it's an ongoing discussion. But, I think to choose journals I think might enjoy whatever story I'm preparing to submit. If that's an online journal, so be it. Print, that's fine, too.

Just keep refining your craft. You're a fine writer.

Christian Bell
Jul 14, 03:50pm

D’Arcy, for fiction, another good resource is Duotrope’s Digest (http://www.duotrope.com/index.aspx), which Linda suggested. You can customize your search and get results that will show you the reported response time on individual publications. The list of publications you get, though, can be a bit overwhelming. I’m not sure if there’s an equivalent for nonfiction.

The whole process can be discouraging. I received roughly 60 rejections (both print and online) before I had a story accepted. One of these even included an acceptance with edits that was then rejected after I made the edits. I believe a lot of this process is a lot about knowing which publication is appropriate for a particular story, something that can be more difficult than it seems. Read the guidelines, read samples of a publication’s work. With the internet, this is quite easy to do these days.

I echo Darryl’s advice to not let this get you down. Maintain focus on writing and working on your craft.

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 14, 04:56pm

Christian, truer words were never spoken regarding focusing on one's own craft. My situation is I have about 14 pieces in various stages of "readiness" (some I feel are done, some will never be "done" enough to suit me). You are spot on regarding knowing the market. I did go to duotrope. Very cool site and I love the calendar for submissions. Thanks for taking the time to wade through this with me.

Best,

D'Arcy

Matthew A. Hamilton
Jul 15, 06:39pm

Check out Poets and Writers, too. They have a list of online/print magazines. Also gives a summary of what these magazines are looking for.

Susan Tepper
Jul 15, 07:07pm

From someone who has probably sent out several thousand submissions in over 15 years, I offer this advice: SEND EVERYWHERE.

It's impossible to dope out what the mags want. By the time you send based on their so-called "criteria" the editors have changed. It's a total crapshoot.

I've sent what I felt was the "perfect story" to specific mags only to have them take something I would never have guessed they would like!

Make 20, 30, 40 submits of the same story. You'll hit. It just takes time and perserverance.

And when you feel down, think of us who used to do 25 or more a week by snail mail! That really sucked. Not to mention the COST of stamps and paper and envelopes!

As Cynthia Ozick inscribed to me in her book: Persist! Persist! Persist!

Matt Dennison
Jul 15, 08:01pm

I miss the mailbox action...

*sniff*

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Jul 15, 08:48pm

Susan, you are so right. I usually send pieces to five markets at a time, my top tier, then go to the next, and the next (how low can you go?).

Yeah, Matt, I miss those butterflies walking to the mailbox and hoping, just hoping... now, it's an email, usually late Friday afternoon or Sunday night. Pooey. Peace...

Susan Tepper
Jul 16, 10:52am

My big favorite are the rejects that arrive the week before Xmas--

I mean, Really!

And it doesn't take Einstein to figure out it wasn't even read, that someone just wanted to clear out the inbox before the Holiday Season and the New Year.

That stuff used to bother me but now I'm tough as nails! And you be tough too!
Tough tough tough!

Rejects are only opinions, and opinions, as everyone on this site knows, can vary greatly

James Lloyd Davis
Jul 16, 12:31pm

Susan's right.

Tough. Yes. What does not break our hearts can only make us stronger. Are you listening, Fiction Editor of the New Yorker, you can't make me cry! You'll never make me cry ... never.

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 16, 12:53pm

You all rock! This conversation is bracing. A quick question though -- As I am scoping out (or as Susan would say "doping out") various magazines and contests, some of them say that what you submit should not have appeared online in any way, shape, or form. Does that go for Fictionaut too? I think that is an odd request. Should I NOT be putting stuff online at 'Naut if I'm thinking of sending out. Any thoughts.

Thanks for such a delightful conversation. D'Arcy

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Jul 16, 01:08pm

Short answer to first question: yep.

Short answer to second question: depends.

There've been several threads here re pubbing on fn versus not, and how perceived by other venues. Many don't care, others consider fn (and even posting to your own blog or website)published.

It's a personal decision whether or not to publish work here (personally, I like sharing my stuff here; as well, I've had one piece picked up by a litzine because of exposure here). On the other hand, my very 'serious' writings -- my longer shorts, my novels, several essays and poems -- I am preserving for other venues and will not post here because the journals I am aiming for prohibit public posting.

So, in short, the pieces I post on fictionaut are: 1/ already published and rights relinquished back to me; 2/ stories and/or poems I do not care to publish in 'virginal only' zines; and/or 3/ are in very draft form or are excerpts from longer stories.

Peace...

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 16, 01:24pm

Thanks, Linda.

Elizabeth Hegwood
Jul 20, 09:15am

D'Arcy,

It's damned hard to find a place for nonfiction. I speak from experience, being primarily an essayist (though obviously I write a lot of fiction as of late).

My first break into a print journal was a combination of luck and timing. A friend of mine directed me to a contest at The Southeast Review, and I submitted an essay that had been rejected at least a dozen times by other print magazines. The essay didn't win, but they liked it enough to print it anyway as a regular submission.

Two of my short nonfiction pieces have been rejected by places I really like many many times, but finally were accepted to a neat online mag called Public Scrutiny. Gary and Rick Barthelme used to edit it, but they accepted my essays before I knew either of them.

So obviously I submit to both. It's always a tricky decision, deciding whether to submit online, because there is such a HUGE SPECTRUM of online mags in terms of quality.

The good news for us, though, is that a lot of talented, serious people are doing online mags, and, for me, it's getting easier and easier to tell which are good and which aren't. It was a mish-mash ten years ago, but now that so many more people submit online, the editors can be that much more picky.

Still, I definitely WOULD NOT give up on submitting nonfiction to print magazines. You can either give up on it, or send out to 50 more and have one of them take it. You know? I mean, deep down you know this. And it sucks. It sucks for all of us. But you WILL get there. Your writing is too good for you not to.

Little story: My husband wrote a story he was especially fond of. It was rejected at least 20 times. Finally an online magazine ended up taking it (Adirondack Review, a good site) and that same story was nominated for a Pushcart that year.

He annoys the hell out of me with that story because he tells it to me every time I want to get all whiny and self-indulgent. ;)

D'Arcy Fallon
Jul 20, 12:37pm

Elizabeth, thanks for the thoughtful response about trying to get nonfiction published. I went to the Southeast Review and read your wonderful essay, "House." Wow!!!! What a terrific piece. Thanks for the encouragement and faith. I'll keep chipping away at it.

I'll check out Public Scrutiny too.

Best,

D'Arcy

Kait Mauro
Jul 25, 06:18pm

Publication is such a lie but I still do it. It is (one of) the great paradox of being a writer.

Gary Percesepe
Jul 25, 06:28pm

um, kait?

could you say a bit more about publication being a lie?

i sorta like that thought but realize i have no idea what you're talking about?

please --continue. love to hear your thoughts on this--

cheers

g

eamon byrne
Jul 25, 06:39pm

Elizabeth, hi. Noticed your comment re essays. For me too, it's a favourite form. Why not add a short one to the 'essays' group - it's there exactly for what you do. If you have trouble doing so, let me know and I'll add you to the group. - eamon

Elizabeth Hegwood
Jul 26, 07:40am

I'd love to, Eamon! Thanks!
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