Forum / Does Fictionaut = Published?

Julie Innis
Jan 18, 07:47am

In submitting work to diff. mags, it seems some places don't want to consider work that has already appeared on any sort of online forum for public viewing, like Fictionaut. Has anyone else encountered this?

I had a new story up yesterday that's under consideration with someone, so I took it down to avoid any conflict with their submission guidelines. Am I being overly cautious or is this something to keep in mind when posting new work to F'naut that we may want to submit elsewhere later on?

Sam Rasnake
Jan 18, 08:26am

Julie, here's a link to a long discussion in forum in November on the subject.

http://www.fictionaut.com/forums/general-forum/threads/75

Editors have different policies - my policy at Blue Fifth Review is that work posted at Fictionaut is already published. That's why I only post work that has previously appeared somewehre.

I'm not the only editor that has that policy. But, the majority of editors here - mostly associated with online journals or primarily online journals - don't have that policy. I would venture to say that the majority of editors of print journals would consider work here as already being published.

H-M Brown
Jan 18, 08:41am

Which sort of makes sense when you consider that people who are online may copy/paste or "Save As" the pdf files that our works convert into, or hyperlink and even post said work throughout internet in their own websites, thus rendering the profitability of one's own work useless.

There are two ways to approach this:

A) do as Mr. Rasnake said, or

B) like me, post a work here that you don't intend to publish with a house at all. Gain readership, and build a fanbase, then use your other unpublished works to pitch to Literary Agents and Publishing Houses with Fictionaut Publishing Credibility.

At least, that's what I'm hoping will work for me since I need to back my story pitches up with some type of successfully good story.

Julie Innis
Jan 18, 08:42am

Thank you for posting this link and for your input, Sam.

(and thank you for your comment on my short-lived story yesterday!)

Julie Innis
Jan 18, 08:48am

Thank you, H-M -- excellent points. I just read through the link that Sam posted above - also very helpful in addressing the different aspects of this issue.

Gloria Mindock
Jan 18, 10:27am

Hi! I will only post work that has been published. I always check a magazines publishing policy before sending them work. Some places probably wouldn't count work here as published, others will.
The only time I will post something unpublished is if it needs work. I might want to see what the response is. I am always careful what I post. I don't want to be able not to use something I worked so hard at.
I only listed one thing so far because I am fairly new to the site. I edit two magazines and a press and I would probably look as work here as published. Reading such good work by all of you familarizes me with your work. I love this site! I also love the comments I get which are so helpful. Everyone is professional and very nice.

Susan Tepper
Jan 18, 10:41am

what if the story you are about to post is set to the box that reads: "this story is private, only private groups can see it." then it would not show up on google, etc, right? which means technically it would stay "in house at Fictionaut", which would make it basically unpublished. is my assumption correct?

Sam Rasnake
Jan 18, 10:48am

That wouldn't even be in house at Fictionaut I would have to be a member of that group to be able to read the work. A private workshop here - and there are several - would not be considered published by my policy. No one at Fictionaut or even anyone surfing the web would have access to it unless they were a group member. That would be the same as having a writer's group on your deck at home. That's the way to go here, Susan - at least in my opinion - with unpublished material.

Susan Gibb
Jan 18, 10:55am

It's good to bring this up now and again with new members being added all the time. I've personally warned a few of the possibility, particularly when one new member noted the story post was going to be out in a major publication--the chance of them seeing it here first could have put the kabosh on his story.

As for myself, I only post published stories (long after they've been accepted), or stories written for the benefit of enjoyment of fictionaut folk, or others I'm not considering publishing but had to get out of my system. Better safe than sorry.

Ann Bogle
Jan 18, 11:59am

Here is perhaps a different point of view. As an editor at three different pub's, I personally don't care whether work has already appeared provisionally at a blog or at Fictionaut or been sent to a listserv. or shown in workshops. I don't exactly care when it was written, if I like it, though it may be a good idea to provide a date of composition. Furthermore, I am willing to reprint work I like that has appeared at a "formal" journal online or offline.

I know from firsthand experience the thrill, in a process sense, of writing something new, showing it to others, and getting a critique or viewing. It is probably due to would-be elitism to insist that the unpub'd work be "exclusive" to a mag. that may have fewer readers than F'naut does.

Some people feel that "the whole world has seen it" if it's been at a blog or at F'naut. It isn't true. I know that 20 people a day flit by my blog; some of those have been editors who solicit, even an agent came by, and it's worth it. F'naut provides a viewings count, so we know that number.

It's just bizarre to me that editors would enforce some policy that writers are not permitted to show their work as they see fit.

My poems at F'naut were previously pub'd. My stories are all new: they go up at F'naut first, then to the blog. I tend not to submit: editors who have found me at my blog or at Fictionaut (this really happened: a pub'r reviewed my stories at Fictionaut!) have not complained that they found me that way.

There's a good argument in favor of letting a piece exist in different locations: more readers. I influence these pub'g decisions where I work, but I am not the last word.

This is a different take on it, I know.

Ann Bogle
Jan 18, 12:45pm

I forgot to mention that when I'm reading at Fictionaut, I feel inhibited in offering a finer critique to an already-pub'd piece because I assume the writer may be unwilling to change a word of it, even for future pub'n in a book or collection. Ironically, F'naut is a forum for comment, whereas the original place of pub'n may not have been.

I'm noticing a lot of pieces going from pen to "print" without hands-on editing.

With my own already-pub'd poems, because I wrote them over a period of 20 years or so, and I worked them very hard, I know them inside out and stet. An essay I posted here is also a story that took seven years to write, not one fave. The task is to realize why it took seven years. I showed it to a few editors, including Art Winslow at The Nation, who kept it on file for a long while (that piece, I think, provoked thought more than action), and to no one else before a start-up poetry journal pub'd it.

Ann Bogle
Jan 18, 01:09pm

Mark Wallace's mag. called Submodern Fiction was very low budget, paper; his editing was minute. I gave him what my closest reader considered to be my best short story; it was not prev. pub'd (I don't know why). Mark teased out this little knot, like the smallest kink in a fine gold chain, one I hadn't noticed though the piece was memorized, before sending it to print. There were name writers in that little pamphlet. It was "underground" somehow. Someone else glancing at the color paper cover, the stapled spine, might say "no." I said yes.

Tree Riesener
Jan 18, 01:22pm

I only post work here, on my blog, on my website,that has already been published. I think magazines should consider published work, given the incredible number of magazines and the even greater number of potential readers but everyone wants novelty. A good compromise might be a time lag--reprints welcome after a year or two. It's harder to understand why contests (not that I can afford many of them) won't consider published work. I suppose editors thrive on the excitement of discovery, an attitude I can understand, given the rigorous nature of their often unpaid work.

H-M Brown
Jan 18, 01:49pm

Which again, as I had asked in another post regarding this situation, is Fictionaut credible enough as a Publishing Website to allow me to introduce my unpublished works to a Publishing House or Literary Agent and say for example: "Dear Editor I present to you my novel for your publishing house. I have previously published some of my works on Fictionaut"?

Will Publishing Houses, Lit Mags, and other venues that require either a Literary Agent or an already Published Work, accept Fictionaut, and the Internet in general, as a credible Publishing House/Source to allow me and other writers here a chance to fulfill our dreams of having a Published Book to reach out to a wider audience? To contribute to the art?

Susan Tepper
Jan 18, 02:43pm

Is anyone else having trouble taking down stories (deleting them)? I cannot delete no matter what I do. There is no "delete" that I can find on the story page. Is it the red X on the toolbar of the "edit story" box? Because my browser will not work any of those toolbar symbols.
HELP!

Ann Bogle
Jan 18, 03:00pm

Susan, Carol Novack removed her stories (after comment, to reserve them for pub'g purposes). She knows how to do it.

Gary Percesepe
Jan 18, 03:12pm

Friends,

1) Go to "You" on the home page
2) Find the soty you wish to delete
3) Hit the delete key.

This always works for me--is it not working for the rest of you? We will want to let Jurgen and carson know, if that is the case...

Sam Rasnake
Jan 18, 03:19pm

I've deleted several poems from my "You" page, Gary. That feature works fine for me.

Julie Innis
Jan 18, 03:27pm

Susan T., you can also make your story "Private" which removes it from public view by selecting that option when you "edit." At least, that's what I did yest. to remove my story (it's still in my acct. with the few comments/suggestions I received, but able to be seen only by me).

I really appreciate the perspectives on both sides of the 'aisle' here as this is an issue I hadn't encountered before when submitting work. I've also noticed a fair number of editors and lit mag groups on F'naut who are clearly very open to the idea of publishing work that has appeared here first.

Case by case, we carry on, I suppose.

Susan Tepper
Jan 18, 03:39pm

Gary-- that is my problem. I CANNOT FIND THE DELETE KEY ANYWHERE ON THE PAGE???
WHERE IS THE DELETE KEY LOCATED???

Susan Gibb
Jan 18, 04:04pm

Susan, go to "You", and next to each of your stories listed is an edit/view/delete key

Susan Tepper
Jan 18, 06:49pm

Susan--
on YOU page there is NO edit/view/delete key. In fact, the only time the word "edit" comes up at all is "edit your story" when I'm posting, before I click "publish." Gary and Jurgen both told me the same thing, but edit/view/delete simply doesn't appear on my YOU page! This is very strange indeed.

Susan Gibb
Jan 18, 10:28pm

Yes, that is strange. On my YOU page, under "Stories", there is a list of stories on the left, and on the right is the option:

Your Stories

Wind View / Edit / Delete
posted Jan 03 | 77 views | 6 favs

Gary Percesepe
Jan 19, 12:09am

susan,

are you sure you are logged in when you go to the You page (dumb question)--

if trouble persists, write directly to jurgen or carson. jurgen@fictionaut.com

best i can do--really sorry to hear you are having trouble--

Susan Tepper
Jan 19, 08:20am

Susan & Gary-- thanks so much for responding. Nope, those prompts don't appear on my page! I will contact Jurgen, thanks

Jennifer Howard
Jan 21, 07:19pm

One important difference between Fictionaut and a literary magazine (online or otherwise) is that there is no editorial filter on Fictionaut. The writers themselves decide what's going to be published. That, to me, makes it a different sort of thing, not publication in the traditional sense. It's more of a public airing. Thoughts?

Finnegan Flawnt
Jan 23, 06:34am

i agree with jennifer that fnaut is more of a public airing. i also recognise that other authors with more publishing experience (that is pretty much everyone else on the site) tend to put out only published pieces (ann bogle being a notable exception - and she argues well, i understand where she's coming from).

i use my blog at http://flawnt.me mostly for public airing - many stories are there in first draft. i experimented with putting unpublished stories at fictionaut but i have made all of them (including the comments, many of which are valuable to me both professionally and emotionally) 'private' now. my new policy is to provide the published piece alongside with a link to the older, unedited version, restricting access to unpublished material to the private groups, such as the 'Hidden Workshop' which seems suitably and deeply hidden enough. nobody is going to see me there. (i may have to revisit that attitude.)
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