Forum / Entry fees for writing contests?

David Ackley
Jul 20, 08:04am

What do we think about the present and wider spreading practise of literary magazines and presses running contests for which they charge entry fees?

It sometimes looks like a way to subsidize their existence at the expense of the very writers whose work they display. It used to be that--at least occasionally--publishers paid writers for the privilege of printing their work. This reversal seems bad to me, but I'm open to the arguments for and against.

David Ackley
Jul 20, 08:24am

Would you, have you, do you submit work to such contests?

Susan Tepper
Jul 20, 08:34am

Entry fees used to really annoy me.
Not any more.

The lit mags and small presses are drying up without Grant Money to sustain them. Grants are pretty much dead now.

The mags/presses are paying all the expenses of operating and producing journals and books, paying out of their own pockets.

Aside from the University presses, these small press publishers are working 9 to 5 jobs and running their press at night and on weeekends (God bless them).

They have to buy: paper, ink, layout programs, ISBN nbrs, distribution (if they can afford that expense) ads, and myriad other things that go into producing books and journals.

And sales are WEAK overall from what I'm hearing.

** see my recent Forum posting: SUPPORT SMALL PRESS

If a press or mag that I respect and want to get into asks for a contest fee, I now fork it over gratefully.

Personally I think it's a MIRACLE we have these small press publishers who are doing it FOR THE LOVE OF BOOKS...

So I say: pay the small $$ they need to stay in business if you want small press to continue. Because these folks ain't getting rich...

Elizabeth Hegwood
Jul 20, 09:01am

I'm pretty sure the entry fees end up being the money for the contest winners, too. I mean, where else would they come up with an extra thousand bucks?

So while, yeah, it sucks a little because most of us are starving artists after all, it's just one of those things. I don't submit to contests often precisely because of the fees, but I'll allow myself one or two when I can afford it. This month I submitted to one contest, and did several other non-contest submissions at $2-$3 each. Guess I spent about $30 in all, which is what I normally limit myself to.

Susan Tepper
Jul 20, 09:17am

Elizabeth, you're right, the money collected in fees helps pay the winning contestants, too

James Lloyd Davis
Jul 20, 10:39am

This practice somewhat confounds the supposed intent and focus of the literary magazines that use it and represents, to my way of thinking, a reversal of their traditional role, which is to support and reward creative effort.

Whether it is used to augment prize money or to satisfy ordinary expenses of day-to-day operations, the net result is this: If you can afford to pay the fee, you will ... and thereby increase your likekihood of being published. If you cannot afford it, you're out of the running.

Many commercial organizations have made a great deal of money from writers over the years, including self-publishing firms and writer's 'resources' such as expensive workshops, publishers of writer's market references, etc. Scams abound, but you know about that.

Ultimately, the inclusion of literary magazines into the fee collection service industry surrounding writing is a sad trend, one that cannot come to a good end, ultimately.

I believe that the art of writing is better served by support from people who are willing to apply sound marketing aimed at readers and aggressive grant research to the effort of putting out a literary magazine.

Collection of fees is, in my opinion, a cop out. It better serves to create a crop of privileged dilettantes who can afford to pay the price of admission than it does to cultivate serious, gifted writers.

That's not to say that those who pay the fees are not serious artists or that they are hobbyists with a checkbook, but why should they have to pay for the 'privelege' of consideration for publication.

If that sounds harsh, so be it. It's only my opinion. I paid the fees for years, but they never did any good for me ... and maybe that's because my writing is not good enough for publication, I don't know ... but I can't afford them now, and I am opposed to the very idea of it. I regularly buy literary magazines that have good content, but studiously avoid the fee collectors as a matter of principle.

Susan Gibb
Jul 20, 10:54am

I don't mind contest fees, particularly when the winners are being paid, and I don't mind solicitations for donations. What I won't do is pay to submit for nothing more than the privilege of being published when they don't pay the writers at all.

Ask an artist, a dancer, a surgeon, a lawyer, anyone who produces something if they'll do it not only for free, but to pay for the opportunity. Writing is one of the few endeavors that promote unpaid labor as an acceptable standard.

On the other hand, I, as we all, continue to contribute and hope just to see my words accessible in a place to be read.

Elizabeth Hegwood
Jul 20, 11:43am

I also have one more opinion about it (and maybe I just think this to make myself feel better?):

I have two jobs. Well, three if you count parenting. I'm a teacher and a writer. To be a teacher, I have to buy gas, clothes, get my hair done every so often, etc. To be a writer, I have to fork out a little cash now and then, too, in different ways. If I were to decide to ONLY be a writer, I guess I wouldn't be buying as many clothes and haircuts and I'd be buying myself a few more contest entries.

Susan Tepper
Jul 20, 12:21pm

The "traditional role" of the lit mag supporting the writer has gone out the window. Because we are living in a shrinking economy.

As an editor at an online magazine, I get no pay, none of our ed's do. We also don't charge for submissions or run contests (though maybe we should)!

We work our tails off to get out the issues. We, too, have families, jobs, multiple jobs, old parents who are sick and live far away, we run reading series, teach workshops, edit free for friends, etc etc etc.

So why do we do it?

To promote good writers and their writing. To be an integral part of the world of arts and letters. To know when our time is up that we have contributed to the culture in some small way. Or perhaps some big way.
History will tell

Robert Lamb
Jul 20, 03:25pm

As long as the judging is on the up and up, I think the contests serve a worthy purpose.

Susan Gibb
Jul 20, 03:57pm

Susan, you bring up another good point: What magazines other than literary doesn't pay their workers? Even the magazines ON writing have a fully paid staff.

It's a tough argument, always has been, and gets even worse with the switch to online where reading must be free (and that's something I think is great) but on the flip side, at least the costs are not as great as paper demands.

I guess we will all continue to act as our heart leads us, and that is to do whatever necessary to keep writing and get our work read and appreciated.

David Ackley
Jul 20, 06:51pm

Like writers, literary magazines do--and should, I think--ultimately survive on reputation, which in turn is based on the quality of the work they publish, quality work produced by writers. Why do magazines need to ask money for considering what they depend on for their existence?

We should indeed be grateful for the hard work and dedication of small press and literary magazine editors as Susan Tepper suggests. I don't see how it follows that we should support ventures such as the proliferating fee-based contests which look to be exploiting what is the raison d'etre for any magazine, its writers and the work they produce.

Linda Simoni-Wastila
Jul 20, 07:39pm

I have no problem paying fees for contests (if they are reasonable) provided there are payouts for the winners. Quite a few litzines provide something for that fee -- a critique of the work or, perhaps, a pdf of the winners (flatmancrooked does this all the time). The fee is small, and I receive some excellent writing to read.

If the litmags broke down and took advertising (which I am not advocating necessarily) then they, too, like Writers Digest and P&W, could afford paid staffs.

I'm on the editorial staff of a litzine. I do it for free. But I'm selfish -- I do it to learn. I do it so I can have the opportunity to read as widely as possible, and help keep alive the journal, which promotes excellent, cutting-edge writing.

I pay the fees for select contests; I have an annual budget. But I am lucky -- I have a day job that allows me this. For those who don't have the means, I fear paying for readings for contests could lead to 'second-class' divisions in the writing world. Peace...

Susan Tepper
Jul 20, 07:50pm

The good part of all this is that we still have choices. The free submissions are plentiful and the contests are there for those who can and want to pay. And the winners do receive excellent prize money. I have entered and never won a dime. But I know people who have won a thousand or more from writing contests. Now that would be nice!

David Ackley
Jul 20, 08:03pm

I know [of] people who've won millions on Powerball,too. which, on the whole, seems the better investment.

You're right, Susan, there are plenty of good magazines that survive just fine without ginning up revenues and submissions from contests, or requiring fees (ala Susan Gibbs's previous comment) to accompagny submissions. I say go with them, and the hell with paying for any of these other dubious "privileges."

Jennifer L. Lopez
Jul 21, 11:44am

I've only ever entered one contest. There was no entry fee, but the contest was run by a large national women's magazine, not a lit mag. I don't have much experience actually submitting, but just researching some lit mags and contests, it seems to me that reputable magazines are only charging fees for contests, and these contests pay cash rewards to the winners, and often have prestigious guest judges. That's always made perfect sense to me (not that I like it, but it made sense). These same publications do NOT charge any fees just to submit your work to them along with the rest of the general public for a chance at being published.

I've also seen a lot of contests where you have to pay to submit, but the contest fee includes a year subscription to the publication, or something similar. I would be fine entering a contest like that, where I get more than just entrance in to the competition for my money.

Paying to enter a contest: no big deal, for me. Paying for a regular, non-contest submission: totally shady, and I'd never support a publication who asked for money this way.
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