Forum / Courtesy to your publishers

Barry Basden
Aug 30, 02:41pm

I just read a marvelous story here, but I'm wondering why it's still up since the author's comments state that it's forthcoming next month in an elite ezine.

Why does this happen? Is it pervasive? What am I missing about etiquette?

James Claffey
Aug 30, 02:50pm

maybe things slip through the cracks? i do my best to private anything that is either published, or submitted at large. benefit of the doubt?

Joani Reese
Aug 30, 03:42pm

Perhaps the guidelines on the site where it is forthcoming do not make it clear that all accepted submissions should be taken down if they are currently posted on another site? I wouldn't dream of leaving an accepted piece up anywhere, and I would not put it up at another site until it was taken down from the site where it was accepted or at least relegated to a previous issue, even if the piece is in a print journal. Irrational exuberance?

Barry Friesen
Aug 30, 03:44pm

Very curious. Usually the ezine requires exclusive online use for 30 days or for a year (or whatever), after which the writer can post elsewhere. Many people put stuff here after it's gone through the cycle on an ezine. But putting something here first also means it's been "published" online, and ezines generally want first rights to publish online, not reprint rights. A writer can't agree to grant first rights if a piece is considered already published.

Barry Friesen
Aug 30, 03:55pm

Barry, I see that you edit an ezine yourself, which has exclusive online rights to a piece until it's published, after which writers can do as they please with it. I don't imagine you'd be too thrilled to see a piece you've agreed to publish appear on Fn first!

This is a public site, not a membership only workshop group. I've heard some mags google their writers before publishing, just to ensure that no one has breached their grant of exclusivity.

Joani Reese
Aug 30, 04:05pm

Some zines such as THIS and Connotation Press, where I am a poetry editor, don't consider work "published" if it has been on Fictionaut, but they do request the piece be removed from public scrutiny if it is accepted for future publication. That's polite.

Robert Vaughan
Aug 30, 05:31pm

Barry, if you are speaking of the piece I posted two days ago (and I hope it is, because you referred to it as marvelous! HA!) here is the deal: I have only been published at Necessary Fiction once before, last December by the guest editor for that issue, Kathy Fish. She'd read my unpublished piece here, "Wrestling with Genetics" and asked for it. I asked her if I ought to remove it from Fictionaut, and she said she didn't think it was necessary. So, of course I added the credit in the notes here.

As far as "Black & White/ Color," I posted here two days ago. When guest editor Nancy Fraser saw the link here, she asked the 'policy' at Necessary Fiction and Michelle (I think that is her name?) said "it could still work at NF even having been up at Fictionaut, but if you do have a piece that hasn't been up elsewhere, let's see if that would work." I sent Nancy two other options. If she decides to use "Black & White/ Color," I would take it down from FN in a heartbeat if it was her choice.

I would never want to dis a magazine or journal. I edit two of them myself. We used to have a running list of journals and magazines here that did not consider having work up at Fictionaut as "published." It was considerably long. Perhaps we ought to compile it again and add it to the new members read? It is a question that comes up all the time.

Barry Friesen
Aug 30, 05:58pm

Interesting that there's still no consensus about what being "published" on the web means.

I guess it's because editors run ezines for free as a labor of love, and writers supply content for free as a labor of love, and the ezines themselves are free, so it's not as if anyone's losing paying customers! Ha.

W.F. Lantry
Sep 01, 05:33pm

To the first Barry: that's a clear breach of etiquette. Let us hope it's simply an oversight.

To the second Barry: I'm not sure how I feel. I do know one thing: I don't consider Fictionaut "publication." There's no submission process, no editors, no issue with masthead, nothing. To me, it's a place to try out new work, in the view of a few like minded friends and authors. We're all sitting in a room, talking and slipping each other pieces of paper.

Yes, the room's windows are open, and yes, there may be a few people milling around outside, eavesdropping even. Yes, discretion is indicated. And yes, if we hand a piece of paper to someone outside, we shouldn't be leaving it out in the open inside. That's just common courtesy, and respect for editors and journals who give us a public forum for our work. But none of those things imply that appearance on fictionaut implies publication (can you imagine one putting such a thing on one's vitae or publication credits?), or diminishes the exclusivity an editor or journal has a right to expect.

I do realize others view the site differently, and more power to 'em. I'm just trying to work us a little closer to the consensus you mentioned above... ;)

Best,

Bill

Joani Reese
Sep 01, 05:49pm

I have seen a few bios. attached to submissions in which an individual has listed Fictionaut as a place his or her work has been "published." Ha! No, it hasn't. It might loosely be considered "self-published," perhaps, with all the baggage that idea currently drags behind it, but no *seasoned* (and I use that term lightly for some venues) fiction, poetry, or CNF editor has made a decision that a piece is worthy of a larger audience at Fictionaut, and anyone can put up anything.

This is not a venue for publication in the most clearly understood sense, only a place to showcase a piece of writing for other writers. It's best to either use a different, working title here if a piece is destined to be submitted for publication or to put up work that has already been published and is off the main page at another literary magazine. If the piece has just been published or is still in the latest issue of a magazine, it shouldn't be here, too. That's just proper form.

James Lloyd Davis
Sep 01, 06:13pm

What's an 'elite ezine?'

Is there a dress code for readers?

Barry Friesen
Sep 02, 10:32am

Hi, Bill. Well, per David Ackley's list of litmags which are fine with "previous publication" on Fn, all that matters is whether a given litmag cares. I sold a story to Sniplits, an audio outfit. The advance they paid was for a "reprint," half the amount for an "unpublished" story, because the piece had already appeared in a print mag. That's the traditional model for licencing work, the unpublished vs. reprint distinction. And it's what litmags mean if they say they want the "exclusive" right to publish something online first. Once the exclusive right expires, all rights revert to the writers, who can do what they like with the work, including posting it here.

The litmags NOT on David Ackley's list want exclusive rights to first publication, and so consider a piece disqualified if it's been available to the public on Fn. They don't care that nobody really reads stuff on Fn except fellow writers. They merely want to put stuff online first, before it's been available anywhere else.

But that's just the POV of the litmags, and only some of them. From the writer's POV, of course putting something up here doesn't count as a "publication," as there's no gatekeeper. It's also why a lot of people use Fn mainly to put up stuff that HAS already been published elsewhere, since litmags have so few actual readers. Ha.

And the meaning of "publication" is kind of silly and irrelevant anyway, given that almost everything online is available for free and writers provide content to litmags for free. It's not as if anyone is losing revenue, which is what the "exclusive rights to first publication" business was originally intended to protect.
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