Forum / Wordy Words

• 
  Ramon Collins

  Jun 13, 12:43am

  I could be wrong -- two words are unnecessary 90% of the time: "that" and "got".

  I cringed when Radio Shack came out with the slogan, "You've got questions we've got answers." How 'bout, "You have questions, we have answers."?

  And I read this today, "it's obvious that she's still angry." Could this mean the same thing, only faster?: "Obviously, she's still angry."

  Do you have words you'd like to dump in the Good Will collection box?

• 
  Joani Reese

  Jun 13, 12:56am

  I've written about "that" for years. When I give seminars at the college where I work, I stress the unnecessary use of that and also tell potential writers they should avoid it, thing, this, and any number of pronouns that take the place of real nouns. I hate vague language--it's lazy.

• 
  Ramon Collins

  Jun 14, 09:00pm

  JP: I had an instructor who featured a lecture, "How To Get Rid of That Word, That".

  But this thread is going over like the proverbial Word in The Punchbowl. 'Nuther question: Are writers more interested in selling than writing?

• 
  Matt Potter

  Jun 20, 01:26pm

  OK, I am always editing out extra verbs writers use. My work as an ESL teacher does inform my writing, but I feel I am forever turning verbs into snappier, smarter, quicker versions of themselves.

• 
  Lori Lou Freshwater

  Jun 21, 11:13pm

  I am working fast and furious to kill my thats.

• 
  Ramon Collins

  Jun 24, 08:29pm

  Matt: You have the reputation of being a meticulous editor. I think every reader appreciates snappy verbs.

  Lori Lou: You may need a license to kill Thats in your state.

  Anyhoo, the original thought behind this thread was to begin a Forum discussion about writing and fiction -- not a popular concept.

• 
  Matt Potter

  Jun 24, 11:55pm

  I have to confess I do enjoy wiping 'that's and 'got's away too - and made up words ending with '-ness'.

• 
  W.F. Lantry

  Jun 25, 12:05am

  There used to be an add-on to Word that would count the words in a text *and* list their frequency, by number, most used to least. I remember when I first pointed it at a text of my own: I stared at the results in open-mouthed horror! All those 'that's, and 'is's, and...

  Haven't been able to find it in later versions of Word. Might come in handy, especially for a novel... ;)

  Thanks,

  Bill

• 
  Gill Hoffs

  Jun 30, 07:51am

  Bill: Word 2010 has an excellent 'find and/or replace' function in the top right of the tool bar. I've started using it, too.

  Ramon/Matt et al.: Very glad of this discussion! On my writing desk I have mini post-its with advice on, e.g. 'what does the story SMELL like?', and that it's better to use the -ing form of verbs if possible. More as a security blanket or prompt than a didactic tool. To my yellow rectangles I shall add the words listed here, with a 'CAUTION - do NOT overuse' sign besides!

  Anything that helps me become the writer I aspire to be is welcome. Healthy discussion is fun. All the best, guys!

• 
  Jim V

  Jun 30, 07:57am

  Actually. I once wrote a rant about that garbage word, published it in Red Fez.

• 
  Misti Rainwater-Lites

  Jun 30, 09:20am

  The abuse of the word "literally" is my main concern. I would also love to strike "like" from the language.

• 
  Jim V

  Jun 30, 09:25am

  I especially hate "like" when it's used in dialogue. "And he was like, 'You gotta be kidding me.' And I was like, 'No kidding!'" And so on.

  I mean in real life dialogue. In fictional dialogue, it's a fine way of showing character.

• 
  Matt Potter

  Jun 30, 10:22am

  'like' and especially 'felt' - I often edit these words out. Especially 'felt', as in feeling (not touching). "She felt angry". Well, so what - we all feel that. Anyone can write that. 'Describe how she looked when she was angry', I usually ask.

• 
  Gill Hoffs

  Jun 30, 12:37pm

  My husband loathes misuse of the word 'random'. I find it pops out of my mouth even more because I'm trying to remember not to use it!

• 
  Joani Reese

  Jun 30, 01:39pm

  When my students use "very," "really," or "definitely" (usually spelled definately) I tell them they get to use each word only once a semester, so they better make them count. These weak intensifiers do nothing to intensify. I also ration exclamation points--one a year.

• 
  Gill Hoffs

  Jun 30, 02:04pm

  Just wrote a piece of flash (having discussed this thread with my husband) minus any 'the's. Will see if there are any 'that's to be culled later. Certainly made me think.

  P.S. - where I live, in the North of England, people tend to drop the end of -s words, as in 'have a look at thi', and it pains my brain. Any local linguistic irritations where you guys are?

• 
  Ramon Collins

  Jun 30, 08:17pm

  A couple of other things pop up during electronic transmission and fiction submission; the endash and ellipses. Some systems transmit the ellipse or an endash butted against a word: ...looking away- as Elooking awayN (sometimes the HTML code will transmit; &endash:) . A very lumpy read. To be safe, more online writers are going to the "open" ellipse as used in screenwriting . . . and the double hyphen -- for an endash.

• 
  Matt Potter

  Jul 03, 02:18pm

  As an Australian I speak with an Australian accent. What bothers me is that I am often taken, when overseas, by non-Australians, for something else, based on my accent. They can't often place me by my accent, and often take several guesses to come up with the correct one. Sometimes I just let them ramble and they never get where I'm from.

  Many people seem to think all Australians talk out of the side of their mouths, and hardly open them when they do. My accent - a middle class, Adelaide accent, and unashamedly - is not so flat. We use a long 'ah' sound on words like dance, France, grant and plant. Others, especially people from Sydney and other parts of the eastern states, use a shorter, flatter sound - the 'a' in dance, France, grant and plant sounds like the 'a' in 'man' - and often speak more through their nose. If you look up Australian accent on Wikipedia, there is a special section on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Australian_English (look under Phonology). I think people often expect Australians to be idiots - based on the perception we are friendly and easy-going. Anyway, most of us are not.

  Now this has absolutely nothing to do with writing, and everything to do with perception and understanding and experience, but is interesting nevertheless, and was prompted by Gill's comment above.

• 
  Gill Hoffs

  Jul 03, 04:52pm

  Very interesting, Matt - it's a shame that being seen as friendly and easy going can be equated by some as signs of idiocy. Not by me! I like people being chilled and easy to get along with in day to day life.

  I'm half Irish, half English, and grew up in Scotland, so I've always been seen as too [insert differing nationality here] for wherever I was. Having a mild Scottish accent is seen as being 'posh' and 'up yourself' in some areas I've lived. Our son sounds Scottish to his teachers [Northern England] and English to his grandparents [Scottish].

  My friend has a teenage son of American/English parents who spent time at school in the US and announced he was becoming a 'switcher' while staying there. One accent at home, one at school. I'll be interested to see what path my son goes. Linguistic differences are fascinating. Tell me more!

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