Forum / Is there room for constructive criticism here?

• 
  Henry Standing Bear

  Mar 05, 12:09am

  I recently left this site and then decided to come back. I thought it worth another shot to come in and try to do what others have done for me here...offer honest feedback on my work and in doing so help me improve as a writer. Sadly, my first comment on a story since returning only resulted in the writer apparently misunderstanding the idea of constructive criticism or not in search of this type of help in the first place. It's disappointing to find what could be a valuable site for each of us to improve one another's work by honest feedback fall into mutual appreciation without the idea of helping one another sharpen our craft. Any thoughts?

• 
  Dolemite

  Mar 05, 12:22am

  I find this a VERY valuable site, in terms of crafting work on the run, and am ALWAYS open to criticism, neg/pos.

  Energy is energy (but sometimes caring does not care).

  There are a couple of folks who's opinions I always respect/appreciate...

  And they speak DIRECTLY to the piece, word by word, line by line, not obliquely, in cardboard-cut-out-school-marm phrases.

  I have found it crucial to develop personal relationships with those you trust/value

  and build on that.

• 
  Dolemite

  Mar 05, 12:27am

  It goes on behind the scenes.

• 
  Dolemite

  Mar 05, 12:31am

  You can't expect the best to exist on the surface.

• 
  James Claffey

  Mar 05, 12:57am

  i say "fuck 'em," sheldon!

• 
  Dolemite

  Mar 05, 12:59am

  That's your response to people who give you constructive feedback?

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  Carol Reid

  Mar 05, 01:03am

  Sheldon, I aim to tell the truth and be constructive. I know it sometimes seems to be a faux pas to give suggestions on the main board.

  There are a number of groups here whose members give thoughtful and detailed feedback. The good thing about these groups is that I know for sure that my suggestions and opinions are welcome there. That's how I've made the site work for me.

• 
  Henry Standing Bear

  Mar 05, 01:16am

  I think I'll just stick to reading. My passive approach in my comments on the story was because I was concerned I'd discourage the writer with more blunt feedback. All I get for that tact is all this nonsense. I should have just said the first sentence sucked eggs - word for word. I'll just read and bail on stories needing work. No skin off my nose. My skin's thick that way. Not thin as a gnat's wing. Good grief.

• 
  Dolemite

  Mar 05, 01:44am

  "My passive approach in my comments"

  Say what you mean and mean what you say, directly.

  Be open.

  It's all good.

  It's okay.

  "concerned I'd discourage the writer"

  No one has that power (over a dedicated writer), so don't worry about it.

  Speak to the Art. Be the guy with something to say who says it because its true.

  No need for all this...

  personal drama(!)

• 
  Sally Houtman

  Mar 05, 02:43am

  If I might offer some constructive feedback :)...

  Sheldon, to say you'll stop commenting over one negative reaction is a bit...silly.

  But it's your call.

  Let's face it good, solid, useful feedback isn't going to take place on the main page. The ego has to be disengaged and the personality separated from the work for this to be truly possible.

  It's best done out of the public view.

  I'm fortunate enough to have found a couple folks whose feedback I trust and respect immensely. This occurs, for the most part, privately.

  Re the site - I choose to brush off the negative, roll with the positive, and focus on the writing.

  Works for me.

  Oh, and in Claffey's defense, I think:

  "i say "fuck 'em," sheldon!"

  I think wasn't meant to refer to those who offer the feedback, but those who react negatively to it. At least that's how I read it.

  Lighten up. Be well. Focus on the work. Your ego is not your amigo.

• 
  David Ackley

  Mar 05, 02:41pm

  There's a group, private but hardly secret, where criticism is not only sought but appreciated, The Bear Pit. We'd be happy to have you Sheldon, or anyone else who feels the same way, join up. Just let me know if you're interested.

• 
  James Claffey

  Mar 05, 04:06pm

  yes, thanks, sally. i was remiss in directing the trajectory of my snipe. i am hugely in favor of those few who offer the constructive, measured feedback that pushes our writing on to stronger ground, and my "fuck 'em" is for those who aren't able to take constructive criticism and use it to their own advantage.

• 
  Barry Basden

  Mar 05, 06:14pm

  @Carol: Yes. There are fine private groups here that do detailed and helpful critiques. I agree that publicly posted stories are not the place for blunt critiques. They often deteriorate into public flame wars that result in fine writers leaving altogether. Several I know, unlike Sheldon, have never come back, which is a pity and diminishes us all.

  fwiw

• 
  Sally Jayne Heymann

  Mar 05, 07:05pm

  I have been on this site for four months, and only recently have I been given constructive criticism, which I appreciated. The thing is, I want to discuss the criticism to be sure there are no misunderstandings and to hopefully help me to gain more insight into my own writing. I think my trying to discuss the criticism has been taken as arguing, and that is the farthest thing from my mind. If someone takes the time to tell me something might work better if I did it another way, I want to ask questions about how it will effect the overall piece. Then I would like a response to that query, so I have more information to work with. I'm not so in love with my words that I cannot change them.

• 
  Gloria Garfunkel

  Mar 05, 07:39pm

  I'm open to constructive criticism especially if it starts with one good thing. I tried it recently on someone and they deleted my comment. Through hit or miss you can probably find fellow minded comrades. Try me out.

• 
  Sally Jayne Heymann

  Mar 05, 08:03pm

  Gloria, you always have interesting things to say. You are the most positive person and find something good to say about everything you comment on.

• 
  Gloria Garfunkel

  Mar 05, 08:47pm

  Not everyone would agree, but thanks Sally. I just think we all have both positive and negative that can improve in our work.

• 
  Ramon Collins

  Mar 07, 01:57am

  I dunno, Sheldon -- I see FICTIONAUT as more of a "showcase" writers' site. I don't think it's intended as a writers' workshop.

  If I have a suggestion, I send it as a Message. Granted; it's more beneficial to serious writers to post "fresh eye" ideas and suggestions in a workshop setting.

  Crits are also required in writers' workshops.

• 
  Susan Gibb

  Mar 07, 03:37pm

  I admit that I follow the "if you can't say something good, don't say anything" position here, unless it's a typo error. If I really like something, I will go into some detail as to what struck me, and that's usually an element of writing that the author super skillfully employed.

• 
  Ramon Collins

  Mar 07, 09:23pm

  Susan:

  Agreed, but I would substitute "constructive" for "good".

  A lot of online negative comments come from WUIs -- Writers Under the Influence. Some writers think they have to be slobberin' drunk or higher'n a giraffe's toupee' to be creative. I've questioned peoples' judgement and received apologies back, stating they didn't remember reading the story or writing a review.

  It's just another road hazard on the Information Highway.

• 
  Darryl Price

  Mar 09, 03:20pm

  Just say what you are moved to say--there shouldn't be any rules about this-you shouldn't be forced one way or the other. Just honestly express or honestly don't.There's a thrill in reading something moving and leaving a few words about your experience. There's also freedom in saying what you didn't like or what didn't work for you. The writer should be able to take any of this information and find value in it, even if it's strength of conviction against a negative comment.None of it signals the end of the world or the end of a writing career.

• 
  Foster Trecost

  Mar 09, 03:39pm

  My simple rule for Fictionaut: Praise in public, critique in private (via messages). I'm sure some of you want it all out in the open, but I don't really have time to keep track.

• 
  Gloria Garfunkel

  Mar 10, 04:56am

  I don't care how I get it. The more feedback, the more valuable.

• Frankie Saxx

  Mar 12, 08:39pm

  One of the best times I ever had on the internet was in the comments of one of Crispy Crime Dawg's poems.

• Frankie Saxx

  Mar 12, 08:40pm

  (And I hope the poem was the better for it in the end.)

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