Forum / Can't write? no problem.

• 
  Carol Reid

  Jul 21, 03:21pm

  http://www.languageisavirus.com/index.html

  This should be/could be/probably is fun. (so why would I rather sit in relative silence in some natural place until the words come? I dunno, Too Serious probably )

• 
  eamon byrne

  Jul 24, 03:47am

  Following the above link and going to the writing experiments of Charles Bernstein, one can look down the list of 66 gimmicks for arbitrarily rearranging texts. I think most of these methods can be criticised as either not following in the true spirit of dada (because they're simplistically programmatic rather than chanced or chaotic), or not leading to very positive outcomes anyway (because they subjugate discrimination in favour of program rules).

  The 66 gimmicks are a kind of oulipo for dummies. But oulipo is in the tradition of verbal and structural experimentation, not writing by hit-a-toolbar-item. Even a great experimenter like Burroughs abandoned simplistic cutups after his early period of playing with them, returning to normative jump cuts and syntactic dissonances. For true oulipo, it's more about finding one's unique voice by abandoning the kind of prose narrative devices found in the best seller lists.

  Gimmicks do however have the virtue of encouraging the writer towards methods in which form leads content. Form always shapes content in some way. And in extreme cases, form may be fashioned in the abstract, and content emerge from the form.

  Undoubtedly many of us have experimented with gimmicks in one form or another. Gimmick number 16 in Bernstein's list comes close to one I used in a piece called "some precursors of Mantegna" (posted today).

  In case anyone's interested, that piece is unsuccessful for the reason that the physical lengths of the sentences are not uniformly progressive. Thus, the fairly obvious gimmick, of having each sentence one word greater than its predecessor, is spoiled by not having this series reinforced visually. That is, the sentences don't SEEM to be increasing in length in a uniform manner.

  Such a gimmick (and many others) is really best suited to a text presented as a one-off visual artifact. Perhaps as an art gallery piece where it is fixed and cannot be tampered with through reproduction (such as by a printer or computer screen changing its font).

  Particularly in this fashionable age of flash fiction, I'm surprised writers haven't progressed to presenting their work as individual art pieces, painted on canvas rather that printed on paper.

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 24, 01:14pm

  Interesting thoughts as usual, Eamon. re your statements about form and content, I'd propose, for the opposition, Creeley's statement, " Form is never more than an extension of content." Of course the two are always in some sort of reciprocal relationship, perhaps with one or the other dominant at any given moment. Like marriage, if you like.

  To your last line, I'd call your attention to my friend Robert Grenier's work, over the last two or three decades now, most in the form of "drawn poems," in 4 colors of ballpoint on paper in notebooks;enlarged reproductions have been exhibited in several galleries, most recently at the Drawing Center in NYC.
  http://www.whalecloth.org/grenier/pennscans/pennscans.html

• 
  Carol Reid

  Jul 24, 05:38pm

  Having the computer generate the material for these gimmicks takes all the life out of the process, for me.

  I love the idea of transforming flash and micro into art pieces. I did this in a much less sophisticated way than the drawn poems above in that accordion book I helped to craft a while ago. Holding that little book and letting the pages unfold in a sort of waterfall of text and image is a good experience for me and for those who have handled the book.It doesn't feel like a gimmick, even though it began as one!

• 
  eamon byrne

  Jul 24, 11:36pm

  Thanks David for that link. Those images of Grenier seem like fairly mainstream art pieces though yet another take on a theme explored by many. It's common these days to visit galleries and see video installations which strongly feature words in some way. Carol, your unfolding book idea is more a concept art idea. It sounds fascinating.

  Anyway, please allow me to get on a hobby horse here. In reality, the most significant thing about visual art is that it is a tradeable commodity. Increasingly since, I would say, the industrial revolution, it has achieved its respect almost entirely because of that, where previously it had gained, also, a more respectable reverence as voodoo marks on cave walls or papal ceilings. (Naturally, this analysis outrageously simplifies my point.)

  Nevertheless, this crass feature of modern art presents even the most impoverished scribbler with a tantalising opportunity. (Or at least fantasy to keep up the courage to go on scribbling.) A page of text, words hand painted, on canvas, framed in gilt, signed, with a price tag, would say: I am a one-off artifact: I have a value.

  A blatant con, perhaps, and incredibly pretentious. But is not that the art market?

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 25, 01:43am

  Not to get defensive about Grenier's work, but it was for decades created in solitude, his attempt to register his surroundings ( on the California coast, mainly) in the black notebooks he used. Seen mainly by a few friends, or at readings when he'd show them briefly. The idea for displaying them on walls came late on from others, who saw the visual possibilities better than he, I think.

• 
  eamon byrne

  Jul 25, 09:33am

  No, you're right - looking again at the images, I can see that the uniformity, and the fact that they're original in style, makes them an art commodity. To increase their value only needs promotion, ie some critics have to sip some wine and take the piss. Then the buyers can step forward with some confidence. God I'm a cynic.

• 
  David Ackley

  Jul 25, 12:58pm

  Cynical, but funny.

• 
  Ann Bogle

  Jul 29, 12:45pm

  Apply caution at the site linked. Do not attempt to offer a prompt. Norton blocked a malicious attack when I tried ...

  Here is my prompt. But I would rather we try this together, eating, drinking in person:

  Chaucer's "In the Basement of the Plaza"

  Collaboratively written tales in four- and five-foot couplets.

  "The Nun-Who-May and the FBI Agent at the HMO"

  There must be more but it will take counting.

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