Forum / Is Micro fiction the future?

Ramon Collins
Jan 29, 01:33am

I think it is. Even writers who read on this site prefer under-500 word stories. Here's a new Internet Slang acronym to think about:

TLTR - Too Long To Read

The next Laptop Generation wants everything short and "punchy". The majority of Lap-toppers do not like to read (as print publishers found out) and the few that do, don't read 2 gud. Reading comprehension began to fade in the 1970s BC (Before Computers).

I fear writers today are, primarily, writing for writers. What do you think?

Letitia Coyne
Jan 29, 01:56am

Agreed.

I do think the same core of booklovers arise spontaneously in every generation, and all the classics are still available, mostly free, and many many individuals still enjoy deeper literary forms. They will always exist and be appreciated.

But for the general population, I agree.

In marketing anything written, breaking out of the circle of writers to find any real reading community is near to impossible; a plague of authors has invaded every reading group on the net.

Even journals are run by authors who could not find a publisher, and their product is bought and read by hopeful authors. Small presses and 'indie' publishers are also mostly authors who self-published and went on to help others. So, yes. Writers writing for writers.

Oliver Hunt
Jan 29, 01:58am

I think it's valid as its own craft and discipline. I find I myself am getting used to it, because to some extent it runs contrary to what you learn in classes and workshops, where they put an emphasis on *more* of everything.

It actually reminds me a little bit more of journalism, where you craft your lede then get right to the nut.

I don't think it's a threat to the novel. I do think it's a good lesson in editing, at least.

Oliver Hunt
Jan 29, 02:00am

And where journals are concerned, I agree but that isn't anything new.

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 29, 04:18am

People still read novels. They just don't read the same novels literary types read.

No doubt in my mind that writers here are writing for other writers, but writers who do that are "working to the band..." as Lenny Bruce used to describe stand up humor that was too hip for the club crowd. Nothing wrong with that.

I read novels of all types and enjoy a good story well told. That may be what's lacking in some modern literary novels.

Barry Basden
Jan 29, 02:15pm

And a lot a folks here are writing novels. I often wonder how that's going...

Oliver Hunt
Jan 29, 03:39pm

I think that could tread into the murky area of what constitutes 'literature', and what constitutes a literary 'type'. Which could tread even further into what constitutes 'art'.

I think a seasoned genre writer probably knows his craft and his audience. Some of whom may or may not ever aspire to write themselves.

I think most peope write because they read something that made them want to do it. Anybody might see a ring they could throw their hat into.

I think the fuzzy line is drawn at 'market demands' over the writer's creative instincts, including a 'demand' for familiar cliches.

Oliver Hunt
Jan 29, 03:39pm

I think that could tread into the murky area of what constitutes 'literature', and what constitutes a literary 'type'. Which could tread even further into what constitutes 'art'.

I think a seasoned genre writer probably knows his craft and his audience. Some of whom may or may not ever aspire to write themselves.

I think most peope write because they read something that made them want to do it. Anybody might see a ring they could throw their hat into.

I think the fuzzy line is drawn at 'market demands' over the writer's creative instincts, including a 'demand' for familiar cliches.

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 29, 03:53pm

I think the novelist should write the best book he or she can possible produce. Genre be damned, just let it be a good story, well written and human. You can't do much better than your best. Why worry. Worry leads to fear and fear of wasting time leads to a zombie apocalypse knockoff in fifty shades of purple. Write about real people in a genuine environment and an interesting context, all Shakesperean and sudden and dire.

Or not.

You could write about aspiring poets working as part-time baristas at Starbucks, venting their frustration through drink, crack, and cutting, all the while quoting Barth during imaginary conversations with Nietzsche and Geronimo.

Ann Bogle
Jan 29, 05:07pm

The necessity of short and deep pieces excites me to consider, and I am glad for it, even if it is mechanically determined by people's use of machines to read.

The Internet has made it possible to bypass the commercial (industrial) insistence on writers' selling novels to publishers who reportedly have mostly only had difficulty in selling collections of short stories. That difficulty has been reported by independent presses as well.

Yet the demand and intrigue for short and very short pieces has been phenomenal and the quality of work produced by independent writers -- who may feel aware of a lack of institutional recognition for their writing and therefore strive even harder to write as well as possible -- has been encouraging. It says something about human capabilities in a machine age.

I enjoy reading the comments above ... I used to teach short story as literature. Frequently, I included short stories on the syllabus written by novelists. I told the students that some writers' metiers were longer with more reach and some excelled in shorter forms. The idea expressed in this forum thread suggests that to be able to write compressed stories has become a survival skill for writers that it was not in the past.

The other question of writers writing for writers I didn't address here, but I was asked a similar question about poets writing poetry for poets in an interview in Long Story Short's Poet's Corner by Russell Bittner. I told him when he asked that I enjoyed writing and reading poetry for poets. I think it's important to realize that there are people reading fiction without a lot of guidance in what to read. Some of those readers may welcome the opportunity to read better very short stories and short stories if they know where to look for them or what to look for in them.

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 29, 08:02pm

Writing is not something you can lay down for any length of time. The process of writing a novel is one that requires intense focus for long periods of time, periods in which you are solitary, unnoticed, getting little or no feedback. In fact, feedback during the first draft of a novel can be truly damaging.

I do love the proliferation of outlets for very short fiction, if for no other reason than it enables you to try out your voice. You can't encapsulate story in a novel when it leads to more that 100-150,000 words at a minimum, but you can try out a particular tone to see if readers are perceptive. The danger in flash fiction is that when you write multiple brief pieces, you fall out of the longer narrative style. It's simply not applicable to the novel in terms of process.

As an art form? I don't know if flash fiction's a thing of lasting impact. And, yes, there is the idea that people will fall away from reading longer work, but I've noticed, particularly in my own preferences, that while little fictions are a pleasant diversion, I miss the substance that only a novel provides.

I've read collections of flash fiction and while they were well written, even masterfully presented, entertaining enough in the short run, I tire of the popcorn effect. I want a sit-down dinner of meat loaf and mashed potatoes, lots of gravy and a side of sweet peas.

Yes, I write the stuff, or did, and published some flash here and there, but when I finally get a novel into print, when I can hold that book in my hands... only then will I consider myself a writer.

Maybe it's 'cause I'm old, or maybe just because I love the novel form above all others.

Once't'upon a time, a short story could run everywhere in length from 5-25,000 words and some of these are powerful, classic, but there are few outlets that ask for anything that long. As Ann pointed out, few publishers have an interest in taking on collections, but it was once a successful model that when a novel succeeded, a writer could follow that up with a collection to carry him or her through until the next novel as a way of keeping the author's name at the fore.

I'd love to publish a collection, but these days, even if my novel is published and succeeds, I doubt there would be any interest.

I put a lot of stock into a novel, blood, sweat, tears... I've finished two and I'm working on a novella right now, but even if they aren't published, I don't worry about having wasted my time. I love writing and believe that it's the best thing ever.

Better even than driving down to Texas on a sunny day with Springsteen on the radio and open windows all the way.

Letitia Coyne
Jan 29, 09:57pm

I'm not sure short stories of any length are in competition with novels. They are entirely different forms, read for entirely different reasons by different demographics.

Flash seems to me to bridge a gap between short stories and poetry. Having only discovered flash and micro fiction in the last 2 years, I admit I am still delighted by it. And I am guilty of clicking past pieces over 1000 words, here.

But in writing genre novels through the 80s, a manuscript of 90-100K words was required for the unsolicited markets like Romance and Spec-fic, but Sci-fi and Fantasy routinely required 200k or even 300K, and series up to a million words were not unusual. I don't know what the big houses are requesting now, but small presses and independent publishers are making 50-70K the norm for novel length.

What was squarely in the short story range, 20-25K, is now a typical novella.

So, even though I do not think flash encroaches on novel market/readership, I do see a distinct trend toward shorter novels. [I have seen nothing to suggest that the shortening of novels has improved the standard of story of style. Authors of novels do not seem to see the challenge in it that appears to be met in flash. :) ]

Lxx

Darryl Price
Jan 29, 10:49pm

So what to everything said. We live in the times we live in. It's still your best opportunity to make something wonderfully written out of it. Some time ago I decided to make what I make out of love for the making. It's great if you get a little attention while you're at it,if you get asked to dance, but not necessary. It won't matter any way if your writing sucks. And you can't control what your writing makes people feel any more than you can control the size of their attention spans. And why would you want to? What's the real beef here? That the world is changing? That writers are changed? That the nature of writing is different than before? Before what?You chose this particular path of creative expression, didn't you? I think flash is interesting, but no more interesting than any other approach.It has a million possibilities. That's good, as far as I can see.Why not explore it--see if it works for you. At the very least it should be looked at as an interesting challenge.

Letitia Coyne
Jan 29, 10:58pm

Who's beefing?

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 30, 12:41am

Well, that's cleared up. I feel so much better now.

Ramon Collins
Jan 30, 01:53am

Thank you all (not y'all) for the interesting conversation. It doesn't hurt to stop once in awhile and ask, "Whither?"

I know, I know -- good writers read books. Writers tend to buy books.

I once (maybe twice) mentioned a writers' forum that when I go into peoples' homes today, I seldom see a bookcase. Writers promptly posted photos of THEIR well-stocked bookcases (books that probably haven't been opened for 20 or 30 years).

What really prompted my question is a chance conversation with a successful, middle-aged (45) businessman. He told me he'd just finished his first book since college; the biography of rock star! As we say in the 21st century, WTF?

I read on a Kindle because I can't handle books good no more. But when the battery runs down or the power goes off there's no more story.

And I miss burying my nose in another world.

Letitia Coyne
Jan 30, 03:05am

My kindle is full of free ebooks - both permanently free and 'one-day-only' free offers on 'for sale' books. That raises an entirely different discussion. Or two.

It is telling that a memes for booklovers commonly mention the smell of books. Maybe even the unread books on writers shelves are comforting for the waft of vanilla-ish old paper and dust.

Lxx

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 30, 01:31pm

The smell, the look, the heft and texture. The collective grace and expectant silence of collections in libraries. There is something fine in a book, yes. And books have better retrieval systems than a Kindle.

Ramon Collins
Jan 30, 09:01pm

Letitia: The waft of vanilla-ish come from lignin in wood pulp used to make paper. As for paper-dust: Ah-ah-ah Achoooo!

JLD: Writers are taught to incorporate the five senses (sight, sound, smell, taste and touch) to "round-out" a character. Four coming rushin' in when you open a book.

Well, you might lick the page of a delicious scene. After all, writers are very sensual.

whatwouldbukowskido
Jan 30, 09:09pm

"I miss burying my nose in another world."

My too, Ramon, me too...

;-)

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 30, 10:36pm

It's a good thing books aren't printed on rice paper. Smelly old wood pulp paper's not much good for anything but a replacement for ZigZags in a pinch. It's the reason literature survives, being inedible.

James Lloyd Davis
Jan 30, 10:39pm

"Paper. The indelible inedible. It's not for dinner."

Oliver Hunt
Jan 31, 12:30am

I don't own a kindle or ereader. Also don't own a lot of books these days. So I haunt the library where, like bookstores sometimes, I feel a bit overwhelmed.

Ramon Collins
Jan 31, 10:01pm

Philly Joe: Ain't it amazing how those thoughts pop out of the end of your arm?

JLD: I sense you're getting ready to write. Right?

Oliver: When local politicians planned to build "A Temple to Themselves" (new library), I suggested they leave out the bookshelves and install computer cubicles. The library is just another after-school hangout.

James Lloyd Davis
Feb 01, 05:12am

Born ready, Ramon... born ready.

Oliver Hunt
Feb 03, 11:13pm

I don't know. I still check out a lot of books from the library because even used ones are frequently outside of my budget. And computer time is limited, even if you bring your own.

That they're more active as youth media training centers I don't think is altogether negative.
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